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Nasty133

I'm slightly confused by this headline... If Arsenal didn't budget for top 4 and their budget isn't affected, how does that make a deal for Gabriel Jesus harder? Obviously it would be easier if they make top 4 but mentioning the budget doesn't seem to have any affect on the Jesus deal.


Dgryan87

I read it as saying Jesus was never part of the long-term budget plan but was being considered recently *if* they managed to get top-4. Since they didn’t, their budget will remain as a expected and may not permit Jesus


Nasty133

Ahhh that's helpful. I had assumed that Jesus or a Jesus caliber striker was included in their plan but I can see how you interpreted it differently.


FanFlow

It was, we made 70+m € for Vlahovic in January, there is no way there is no money for Gabriel Jesus for summer when stiker and midfielder are the most important positions to strenghten. Olley is speaking nonsense, just like he did few hours ago with Gabriel's 65m € price tag with one year left of contract when City journalists few weeks ago said that they want 50m €.


Nasty133

>Olley is speaking nonsense This is what I was getting at. It's pretty poor reporting on this guy's part since his headline just put out two facts that don't relate to each other.


allthejokesareblue

He doesnt write the headline, in fairness. He cant be blamed for what his editors do with his story.


FanFlow

He wrote this in his article: >Arsenal are weighing up their options after being told Manchester City will demand £55 million from the north London side to sign Gabriel Jesus this summer, sources have told ESPN. He wrote also about Dybala which is nonsense considering his position on the pitch and wage demands.


allthejokesareblue

Im not sure what the issue is with the quoted text.


FanFlow

That City doesn't demand £55/65m € and it is riduculous claim to get views and retweets? He's guessing and there is no single source from Arsenal, nor City confirming that. We're not in talks with Dybala either. His entire article is poor.


allthejokesareblue

> sources have told ESPN I dont see the issue here.


21otiriK

>just like he did a few hours ago It’s all the same article. The £55m price tag is literally the headline.


Tmdss

It obv means having cl makes it easier to convince the player. My god.


Nasty133

Convincing the player has nothing to do with their budget though. It's not like Jesus is pocketing the transfer fee. I understand that having CL makes everything easier but if Arsenal didn't budget for CL then it shouldn't make anything harder unless Jesus wasn't part of their plan originally. Like I get the point the writer is trying to make but the logic from not budgeting for CL to making a transfer more difficult doesn't line up to me. If Arsenal had budgeted for CL football then it's a much more straightforward claim.


Tmdss

Missing out on CL makes the Jesus deal harder, because obv we have no CL football to lure him. Its not about the price tag. We can easily afford 40-50m.


Nasty133

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. There's no reason for the journalist to mention the budget. This is a basic non-story that it's harder to sign a top player if you're not in the CL.


MegaMugabe21

You're right, the headline doesn't make much sense the way it's written, unless he means that CL would have increased our planned budget and would have made signing Jesus easier, but there's more sensical ways of wording that.


pratthebrat

I think a different guy writes the headline to the article tbf.


lost_biochemist

Probably makes it harder to convince him to join, not the financials (unless it means we have to pay him more to convince him or something)


bungholepucker

Don’t get your hopes up so you’ll never be disappointed. Welcome


vamsikrishna9229

PRteta does it again


BaoJinyang

Not sure why there’s been so much talk of what a massive disaster missing out on the CL is for Arsenal. Liverpool, City and Chelsea are way ahead of them still, so it was always going to be between them, Spurs and United for the final spot. Once Spurs hired Conte it’s not surprising they’ve narrowly missed out. Still got a young team on an upward trajectory. All this said, next season they need to keep improving to justify their approach, so top four is a must.


ballsdeeptackler

I think of it more like Arsenal had no European commitments, so really largely focused on the league and couldn’t get there. That’s got to be disappointing as next year they’ll have to deal with Europa. Can they get top 4 next year? Sure, but it might be more difficult with European responsibilities.


BaoJinyang

Europe or not City, Liverpool and Chelsea are just way better. Was no Europe a massive advantage for Arsenal vs Spurs? Spurs didn’t even bother playing all their European games and fielded weakened teams when they did.


TallSpartan

> Spurs didn’t even bother playing all their European games Feels a harsh way to word it...


lost_biochemist

lol I agree. It’s a harsh way to package the facts, but the point remains that it’s not like spurs we’re making deep run in Europe during the second half of the season. Think it just highlights that while we have a good young team, spurs have a couple world class players and a far more experienced manager and those factors (along with our self-imposed shallow squad) were the difference EDIT: lol @ downvotes. Arsenal flair says spurs have world class players, good manager, and that we shot ourselves in the foot with small squad. Spurs fans: “hmmm arsenal fans delusional, downvote”.


I_always_rated_them

In broader context of a season in league football yes not having to play and prepare for midweek matches is a big bonus to your league form.


IsleofManc

Spurs haven’t played a European game since November. So for the last 6 months it literally hasn’t been a factor


FanFlow

Even in that 5 games in Conference League they've basically put 2nd strings, they rotated heavily. We played similar number of games in English cups. Noone expected Arsenal to finish in top4 before the season, nor after few months, some even said especially here that we're not finishing in top6. Arsenal lost top4 in January, we loaned Niles, sold Chambers and paid Aubameyang to leave and didn't sign midfielder & striker, even only Bruno Guimarães would be a huge boost. They gambled on no injuries/red cards and it backfired. Spurs won top4 in January by strenghtening squad in signing Bentacur and Kulusevski.


bluedevils2241

The Conference League only added five matches to their in-season schedule as well (plus two qualifiers last summer). It's an impact for sure, but the idea it dramatically affected league position/decided the table is just not true. Travel mid-week can be challenging, but their farthest trip was only two hours to Slovenia.


BaoJinyang

If you make a decent run into a European competition you are actually trying to win, sure. But Spurs didn’t have that this season either.


I_always_rated_them

It's not about Spurs, it's about Arsenal not having to handle it and have it impact their league form. They also aren't only up against Spurs chasing europe spots.


Wasssan

Europa is another way we could get UCL football...


TP_Cornetto

When you look at the run in they had, then it is a bit of a disaster. 3 game losing streaks are pretty bad as well


Zigzagpapes

Because we were top 4 with a decent cushion with only a few games to go. You think if Leicester lost the league on the last couple match days in 2016 their fans would be happy because they were thought to end near the relegation zone?


Jolly-Literature1226

In a vacuum it isn’t a disaster , but considering the fact they were well above spurs basically the whole season and gave it up (arsenal have 15 points from last 11 games and were 4 clear of spurs with 3 matches to play. Basically just couldn’t lose to spurs and they’d be fine, and they lost) Spurs were also a complete mess much of this season and it’s hard to imagine they won’t be better next year, so arsenal not capitalizing on having a season where they aren’t in Europe is massive


eri-

People have to come to terms with the fact Arsenal, on paper, really isn't a top 4 club in the PL any more. not even budget wise. Arsenal themselves seem to understand this way more than many football fans. They can challenge for it sure but it should in no way be considered as a given or included in their budget, at least not for now.


Baseball12229

All of what you said can be true. But none of that changes the fact that they were in 4th and four points ahead of Spurs with three matches to go. You can say they aren’t a top 4 club, but the fact remains that they were in 4th and only had to defeat Newcastle, who despite their improvements under Howe still have a worse squad than Arsenal, and Everton. If you were told Arsenal were to finish 5th at the beginning of the season, obviously that would’ve been viewed as a good if not great year for a young club. But dropping out of top 4 in these circumstances can definitely be viewed as at least somewhat of a disaster and a massively missed chance at accelerating their vision.


goonerh1

All you had to do was beat West Ham or Chelsea to win the league and you couldn't do it.


Baseball12229

Yes that’s accurate. What does that have to do with what I’m currently discussing?


goonerh1

It's not accurate though. You had to win a shitload of other matches to even get close. You can't just pick out the bad results, ignore the good and then say "all you had to do was win this one". Bad results are always going to happen.


Baseball12229

The point I was really arguing was that because Arsenal were predicted to finish outside the top 4, it can’t be seen as a disaster or disappointment because they finished fifth. My view on it is that yes on its own, finishing 5th represents a fine season for Arsenal. However, the circumstances that lead to Arsenal finishing 5th, being 4 points clear with three matches to play and losing twice in a row, can still be viewed as a disaster even if it ultimately matches preseason expectations. Arsenal were not supposed to be a top 4 team this year but through 36 matches, they were one. The fact that they couldn’t beat two teams that I think you and I would both agree Arsenal are better than to finish that job, can be viewed as a disappointment. Leicester not being seen as a top 4 club the previous 2 seasons didn’t stop people from claiming they bottled it when they missed out, I don’t why it should be different for Arsenal.


goonerh1

I think disaster is an overly strong word here, because i don't think it is reasonable to remove the context. If Arsenal had lost to Newcastle earlier in the season and then finished on a good run it would have been the exact same season but we'd look much better having won a string of tough matches. We had a downturn in form, coinciding with key players getting injured in a young squad, small squad I would fully agree with calling it a disappointment, it's a massive disappointment. Coming so close with a squad that small and young when at times they'd looked as good as we have in years. But I do think that when the dust settles Arsenal fans will feel in a much better place than we did at the start of the season and more optimistic than we would have thought was reasonable. That's why I don't think disaster is applicable here.


Baseball12229

I think the “coming so close” point you made is what makes the difference though. Yes if you lost to Newcastle earlier in the season and ended strongly but still came up short it would feel better, but that doesn’t change the reality that it was in your hands with two matches to go. That stings more and for good reason. Regardless “disaster” vs “disappointment” is really just semantics so I see where you’re coming from as well. But to me I do think it is at least a short term disaster having another transfer window where you can’t attract the same targets you otherwise may have gotten with CL football. But it’s all just about perspective I guess.


DankyPal

Problem is that there are currently only 3 top 4 clubs lmao


MegaMugabe21

I mean this is the crux of it. There are 6 teams where it's generally considered a massive failure if you don't get top 4. 3 of them teams have it on lock so it's basically us, Tottenham and United fighting for the last spot with a few wildcard clubs thrown in. A minimum of two teams will always be disappointed.


habdragon08

Well budget wise there is a clear top 4 and then a gap to Arsenal/Spurs and then a pretty decent gap to the 7th biggest budget in the league. On the field, I'd say Liverpool/City are significantly better than Chelsea who is significantly better than united/Spurs/Arsenal. The table reflects this. If United get their shit together its gonna be really hard for Arsenal or Spurs to break into that hegemony consistently. If Newcastle is able to grow into a top 4 budget that's gonna be another team to compete with as well. Arsenal or Spurs will likely need a generational coach to break in like Liverpool did over the last 5 years.


gopackgo555

Chelsea are great in KO competitions but really not special in the league. Arsenal are in the middle of a rebuild and Spurs fired a coach mid season but both are going to finish within a few points of Chelsea. Spurs actually still have a shot at passing them (not gonna happen).


staedtler2018

>On the field, I'd say Liverpool/City are significantly better than Chelsea who is significantly better than united/Spurs/Arsenal. The table reflects this. Chelsea average something like 70 points per league season over the last 5 years. They haven't really been particularly good in the league for quite a long while. With their ownership change and everything it will entail, it really shouldn't be impossible to leapfrog them. >Budget wise there is a clear top 4 and then a gap to Arsenal/Spurs Sure. But these things can change, by doing a good job. That is what's being asked of Arteta/Arsenal. In 2015-2016, Liverpool's wage bill was lower than Arsenal's. They had low net spend in 15-16 (36m), in 16-17 (-6m), 17-18 (-11m), and really only started spending more substantially in 18-19, by which point they'd already reached a Champions League final. They hired a manager who did a great job on the pitch and a team that did a great job on transfers and they quickly went from "also-rans who don't know how to do anything" to "Champions League winners." If they can do that I don't see why it's so daunting for Arsenal to merely get back to perennial 4th placers.


MegaMugabe21

>People have to come to terms with the fact Arsenal, on paper, really isn't a top 4 club in the PL any more. not even budget wise. Moment I see people discussing Arsenal and then mention us not spending enough I immediately switch off, even a cursory check would show that we spend enough money to compete for top 4.


eri-

No one says that kind of money shouldn't be enough for top 4, but the grim reality is others spend even more. Hence you are still at a disadvantage. The club shouldn't be trying to keep up with that anyway, its morally obscene.


wheresmyspacebar2

Arsenal spend the 5th most on Wages, they spend significantly more than Spurs do £55M compared to Arsenal spending £81M. Yet people were going on that Spurs finishing 4th was 'expected' and anything under was going to be a crap season even though we spend around the 9th most in the PL. ​ Arsenal spend a buttload, they've consistently spent almost double what Spurs wage was and yet theyve gone backwards. On PAPER, they should be competing with top4 and trying to downplay it all because they didnt get it is bollocks.


fuzzynavel34

I would be interested to see that number after this summer because I think Partey will be the only player we have making more than 140K a week.


Mrmoi356

Difference is you have Kane and Son, those two players would make it into any starting 11 in the world bar Madrid and maybe Liverpool. While Arsenal spent a lot, it was all on young players to build on and to be frank, no one in Arsenal's starting 11 makes it into the squad of any big European team.


wheresmyspacebar2

>While Arsenal spent a lot, it was all on young players to build on and to be frank, no one in Arsenal's starting 11 makes it into the squad of any big European team. Then why are Arsenal paying them like theyre big european starters lol. This isn't crapping on the players or the fans, your club is so badly mismanaged from top to bottom. Kroenke, Edu, all the way to the yes man you have in Arteta. Arsenal fans love to shit on Levy and Spurs about not spending money and this and that. Youre paying £140k or something stupid to Ben White ffs. We're paying Dier and Romero £65k each and i wouldnt take White over them. Same with Tierney, like £100k+ a week? Whilst we have Sessegnon, Reguilon and Emerson on like 50k per week, if that. Youre also paying Partey the same wages we pay Kane and less than we pay Sonny. ​ There has to be some give somewhere along the lines here. You cant be paying players over 100k a week and then claiming that theyre young/not good enough for europe teams so should be given leeway. Either theyre good enough or Arsenal are being scammed by players, top to bottom IMO.


staedtler2018

Other clubs spend better, not just more. Arsenal's top three goalscorers in all competitions this season are Saka, Smith Rowe, and Nketiah. Those are all academy players. Why aren't the players they spent money on scoring goals?


erldn123

Because Conte with a full window and pre season, Utd with Ten Hag, Leicster perhaps rebounding etc. They missed a massive chance. It's a huge disaster, especially in the context that they only had to beat one of Palace, Southampton, Brighton or Newcastle in the last month or two. They didn't even have Europe or cup runs to distract them lol. If people think this isn't a disaster then Arteta has truly convinced everyone this is a permanent project and never to expect any real results. Edit - This whole "well they/we would have taken 5th before the season so it's good" is the most pathetic attitude I've seen and kind of solidifies Arsenals fall from grace as permanent if this is the mentality of club and fans alike.


lost_biochemist

Say we should be in top 4 = are called delusional acknowledge that climbing back to CL football is a gradual journey and say getting into Europa after two 8th place finishes is progress = pathetic No winning with r/soccer pundits lol Edit: a word


MegaMugabe21

Nature of the platform. Its just thousands of anonymous voices shouting into the abyss. You can make these dramatic predictions because no one will remember you saying it. No need to moderate your takes when there's no chance you get called out if they're wrong.


staedtler2018

>acknowledge that climbing back to CL football is a gradual journey and say getting into Europa after two 8th place finishes is progress = pathetic It's pretty slow progress.


lost_biochemist

Better than nothing. We tried the instant success thing and it didn’t work. Have to start somewhere.


goonerh1

Not just r/soccer. Pundits in general, look at Neville. He predicted we'd be awful, truly awful this season. He led the charge in getting stuck in after the first few games. He's spent the entire season saying we'd drop off and not make top 4, saying we'd finish behind Man Utd until very recently. Now that it's looking like we won't get top 4, in the final games of the season he's saying it's a disaster for us. You can't win because the narrative was decided for a lot of people before a ball was kicked.


Seijur0Akashi

Don't even mention United. We have had too many false dawns. United need to be left alone until next year when it comes to being mentioned in the top 4.


sandbag-1

>Because Conte with a full window and pre season, Utd with Ten Hag, Leicster perhaps rebounding etc. Find it silly when people say with certainty all these teams are going to be good. What if Levy doesn't buy anyone? What if Ten Hag is shit? How about Chelsea, who we've been in better form than since about November and are losing half their defenders? You don't know at this stage. They might be great but it's not a guarantee. Or what about the fact Arsenal are probably going to be better next season since we're highly unlikely to lose any important players, and will also sign a bunch of new ones, like having a first choice striker who can score more than 2 open play goals all season?


TigerBasket

If levy doesn't buy anyone then their will be riots and Conte will leave so he will not stay if we don't strengthen the squad so something will happen on that front.


Pele20Alli

>Find it silly when people say with certainty all these teams are going to be good > Or what about the fact Arsenal are probably going to be better next season


MegaMugabe21

Tbh he does say probably though I see your point


Pele20Alli

Fair, but surely it's more silly to think Arteta will improve Arsenal even more and finish top 4 next season while also playing in Europe than it is to think Conte will improve Spurs in his first full season with us


staedtler2018

>Or what about the fact Arsenal are probably going to be better next season since we're highly unlikely to lose any important players, and will also sign a bunch of new ones, like having a first choice striker who can score more than 2 open play goals all season? United didn't lose important players and signed a bunch of new ones including a 4-CL winning defender and 5-time Ballon d'Or winner and they are where they are.


Liverlakefc

I like that the first part of you comment you criticize him for talking with certainty yet do the same in the second part


sandbag-1

You think the words "probably" and "highly unlikely" are talking in complete certainty? Might need to re read the comment


CCSC96

I know this isn’t exactly the best example but I’m so thoroughly convinced the world would be much better if people were capable of probabilistic logic


goonerh1

I can't work out if people are deliberately avoiding those words because it's or are just too stupid to understand the difference.


[deleted]

[удалено]


B_e_l_l_

>Leicester rebounding? From what? Finishing 14th? That's an underachieving side and has been ever since Rodgers took it over. You don't half talk some bollocks.


mashimaru_161

>Facing the prospect of literally ceasing to exist like Chelsea, is a disaster. ...Idk why you gooners think the torries would be dumb enough to allow it but it won’t happen, just saying. *sigh


try-D

> Leicester rebounding? From what? Finishing 14th? That's an underachieving side and has been ever since Rodgers took it over. You what? Glass houses and that.


TheLittleGinge

>so top four is a must. This year they had no Europe and were knocked out of the domestics very early. Not even mentioning Liverpool, City and Chelsea, Man United will surely have an improved season, as will Spurs if Conte stays and is backed. If anything, *this* was the season for Arsenal to grab a UCL spot. Next year's chances seem even further away.


mintz41

> This year they had no Europe Spurs and United played barely more games than Arsenal across their additional European games.


Mike_Hawk86

Spurs had 54 games this season while Arsenal had 45. I wouldn't say 20% more matches is "barely more games"


Wasssan

We made it to the Carabao Semi final >Not even mentioning Liverpool, City and Chelsea, Man United will surely have an improved season, as will Spurs if Conte stays and is backed. You act like those clubs are the only ones that are allowed to improve.


Nulgarian

Those are the clubs most likely to improve. Obviously biased, but Conte is a genuinely world class manager, and Spurs have taken the 3rd most points since he came in. With a full offseason and new signings, I think it’s pretty reasonable to suspect Spurs will make a jump. While United don’t have a coach quite like Conte, Ten Hag is still very good, and they have the money and allure to rebuild much faster than other teams.


Mrmoi356

The no Europe point is such BS. Spurs had practically no Europe either but no one is saying the same thing to them.


Goalnado

We played 7 European games?


goonerh1

And we got to the semi finals of the league cup. People are just spouting whatever crap comes into their heads as if it is true.


codespyder

I think ahead of the season 5th for Arsenal would have been the benchmark. Not awesome but not terrible. It’s just the way that Arsenal has looked to miss out on top 4, and to whom they’ve lost it to, that makes their current predicament feel really awful.


InLampsWeTrust

Considering they had it in their own hands yeah it’s turned into a disaster. I know they weren’t expecting to get there but they were right there and that is gonna hurt if spurs win on Sunday.


MouseMD369

Brighton will get top 4 before Arteta


Blue_winged_yoshi

Honestly missing Tierney and Partey for the run in has cost us. We should have better replacements than we do, but those guys are probably our two biggest leaders on the pitch and they are both critical our game. If they’re available we’re 4 points better off and home and dry.


mashimaru_161

Then you should look for replacements instead of relying on them the third time. Tierney’s always injured nearly missing half of your games and partey barely plays. Don’t think anything will change next season.


Blue_winged_yoshi

We did, we picked badly. Brought in Tavares, the guy can’t play at all. That’s our bad. All sides below the top three lack strength in depth and sometimes struggle with bringing in backup players, that’s just football.


Mempherrata

How do you guys keep rehashing this excuse. 2 players out and one of them is perpetually out so that is genuinely not even something to be surprised about at this point. You had no Europe and got knocked out of the FA Cup early. You also loaned out/sold all the depth you had in January and praised your board for it.


MilesAboveTheEarth

Its not an "excuse" its an obvious fact. What do you want people to say? "Oh yea Partey and Tierney dont matter, we should have just made it to the Top 4 without our most important player and a fullback that is vital to every phase of our playstyle" Its one thing to criticize the transfer dealings leaving them without sufficient depth, its another thing to pretend that this squad magically should have found a way into the Top 4 without 2 vital players.


Blue_winged_yoshi

I mean if you take two of the most influential players out of any side outside of the top three they’re gonna struggle. Take Son and Kane out or Spurs’ run in and they will be four points worse off and back out the top four. Neither of us are Man City in terms of depth and the gap between us is two points. It’s not like we’re using injuries to paper over a 10 point gap here.


tnweevnetsy

You're not seriously comparing missing Tierney and Partey to missing two genuine world class forwards lmao


mintz41

Partey is a massive part of Arsenal's game plan, surely that is something you understand?


Blue_winged_yoshi

We’ve been completely unable to defend or play out the back and have haemorrhaged goals as a result. Conceding goals is as bad as scoring goals. Need any other football facts just ask.


tnweevnetsy

Missing an average fullback and a single midfielder made the team completely forget how to defend or progress the ball, got it. That level of tactical rigidity is a problem on its own, if true. Which it's not - Tierney was shite for most of your purple patch anyway and Partey's injury simply coincided with that purple patch ending. They aren't the reasons for your poor form since April.


Blue_winged_yoshi

Literally anyone replying calling Tierney average is just making it abundantly clear how little they’ve watched him.


wheresmyspacebar2

You say this as if we didnt have Romero out for half the year? We've had Doherty out for the last 6 games, someone we relied on heavily, Skipp has been injured for 2 months, Reguilon was out for a month. ​ We lost our best defender, our best RWB, our best LWB and our best Midfielder. We still pushed on and got results with worse players filling into their shoes.


tnweevnetsy

I'd say let's wait and watch Arsenal resume their inconsistent form next season with him in the team for both the good and bad but given his injury history that's not very likely and honestly the injury record alone pushes him to "should not be a starter" territory


Blue_winged_yoshi

Our results fluctuate a little but they are significantly more consistent than you seem to realise. We lost most of our games this season in blocks where key players have been absent. We’ve won most of our games in blocks too and we’ve barely drawn a game (least in division I think). Really, I don’t know what’s so controversial about pointing out that missing two keys players to our system for the final quarter season cost us a couple of points.


Geormajesty

Edit: ignore this, misread


TigerBasket

It's just because how they missed, with the delaying of our game for some reason, with terminating Auba's contract, with getting battered by us then a Newcastle that had nothing to play for, with the losses to like Crystal Palace and being up like 6 points with games in hand, they blew it and that should be reflected upon. They are young but youth does not excuse losing like that. Also the absolute embarrassment they were at the start of the season, it's been rough.


MegaMugabe21

Pretty ironic to criticise our usage of covid postponements and then brand us an embarrassment at the start of our season when we were the only team majorly effected by covid and the league refused to allow us to postpone the game, presumably for optics. I think most teams would have angled to postpone the Tottenham game if they were in our shoes. At the end of the day it's a competitive league, if you can legally do something to give yourselves an advantage, you're probably going to do it. Obviously didn't work out for us in the end and that's just the way she goes. If you pose the question to any fan: You have a crucial game against a strong opponent coming up, you have a weakened squad, and you're legally allowed to postpone it, what do you do? A. Postpone it until your squad is stronger B. Play the game because it's morally correct Most fans are picking B.


MilesAboveTheEarth

As an Arsenal fan I completely agree and its weird how quickly people's expectations changed after we had a few good runs of form. This team has 2 fatal flaws, it was clear all season long- lack of depth and no striker. It would have taken incredible amounts of injury luck to make the UCL when our depth is non-existent at vital positions. We needed more time to add depth and for the younger players to continue to mature and bed in (especially guys like Nuno and Sambi Lokonga- not only are they young, they are transitioning to the EPL which is something that even 28-year olds struggle with sometimes). We have some of the building blocks to be a UCL team, but building blocks are not a whole building. And yes- Im sure someone will come screaming and yelling at me that its their fault they didnt buy anyone in January, that Arteta has already had time to build the squad, blah blah blah. Its always the same meltdowns every time Arsenal is discussed. And I get all that and agree but hypotheticals do not change the fact that the squad we *did* have this season is not right for the Top 4 yet.


ValleyFloydJam

It's more about how they missed out, than just missing out though. They had looked the best of the 3 and then crumbled at the end.


los_blanco_14

"Honestly, i didnt think i would get this far"


OptimusGrimes

I get that Arsenal maybe over achieved and say they aren't really too disappointed that they didn't finish top 4 but if they couldn't manage it this season, I think it'll be a while before they get another chance


[deleted]

People would say before this season that Arsenal would have absolutely no chance though. United with Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo. Chelsea straight off winning CL, City and Liverpool etc.. They might even have a better chance when next season gets going for all we know


OptimusGrimes

that's true and you never really know how the stars are going to align, but looking back this season, the stars did align in Arsenal's favor and they couldn't capitalise


Glass_of_Pork_Soda

Did they though? We started the season with 3 straight losses as most of our 1st XI was out. We lost our key LB and RB for almost half the season, our best midfielder missed 14 games as well, our star striker was actually costing us goals, the backup striker couldn't score at all, and until Eddie somehow showed up we had no goals coming from a striker. Despite all that we still managed to almost pull Top 4. Imagine this team coming back next year, improved, with hopefully proper depth for the fullback positions, Saliba back for more CB options, ideally an actual striker, and maybe a new midfielder as well.


OptimusGrimes

>Imagine this team coming back next year, improved And I see that happening but the nature of finishing 5th is you have to improve more than the teams ahead of you, which I don't, although anything can happen. I think that my point boils down to the fact that no-matter what the expectations were or how the season went in context, Arsenal were 1 win against Newcastle away from finishing in the top 4 for the first time in 4 years and I for one would be absolutely livid about that


3500fp

We aren't happy, but that doesnt mean we should sack the coach and shouldnt move on and see we have massive holes that are easy to improve on. If we only worry about ourselves, with an actual good striker (I rate Eddie around 18th itl) and depth in key positions we've neglected this year (already Hickey rumours), then I dont see why we cant finish in the high 70s for points. In fact I would probably be disappointed if we dont


OptimusGrimes

Yea that's fair, to be honest, I don't care too much, was quiet in work and people kept replying and I kept responding and I have a lot of mates who are Arsenal fans and like talking down to them lol. Next season will be pretty interesting at least


basedsims

My favourite narrative to believe in is that every team is guaranteed to improve at a significant level every season. It’s never worked like that before, as always there will be teams in the top 8 who will drop off as is the case every year.


jMS_44

Even the sheer fact they had easier schedule by not playing any european competition is a kind of advantage they won't have next season.


OptimusGrimes

and Leicester and Newcastle have that luxury this season, and Conte will have a summer to make some signings too. I think their best bet is your lot having an absolute meltdown due to off the pitch issues


jMS_44

Well our off the pitch issues are slowly running to an end I think. Both govt and PL have now supposedly green-lighted the takeover so it's just matter of officially finalizing the deal.


OptimusGrimes

yea but Tuchel is a ticking time bomb


jMS_44

is he?


Wasssan

Spurs got knocked out of Europe very early and United have only played 4 more games than us this season. The advantage of us having no European football is overrated. Especially since the Europa League group stage is easy.


flyingghost

A good example is when Wenger plays the B/C team until the quarter or semi finals. The problem now is that our squad is thin and there's not much quality outside the first XI.


sandbag-1

I don't know why people say it will be ages before there's another chance for top 4. You can never really tell, seasons are hard to predict in advance. This was quite a hard season to get top 4, especially compared to last season. Look at the competition, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs all significantly improved from last season, and the only team which got worse was United.


dbrasco_

I wouldn’t say ages before another chance, but this was a golden opportunity in my opinion. You could say Arsenal had bad luck with covid/injuries at the beginning of the season, but they had so many tailwinds too. No Europe Early cup exits Spurs goofing around with Nuno at the beginning of the season United stinking out the joint Leicester was way worse than they have been for the last few years This is the worst Newcastle team we are going to see for a long time


Fatt_Hardy

> You could say Arsenal had bad luck with covid/injuries at the beginning of the season We had a squad badly depleted by Covid, asked to postpone our first game and were denied this. It was the first game of the season. It was to be globally televised. The League didn't want the very first game of the season delayed by Covid, so they denied our very reasonable request and forced us to play with a depleted team missing multiple senior players. This wouldn't have been so galling, if they hadn't then midway through the season allowed teams (including us) to call off games with one or two positive covid tests in their squads. It felt like they just made up the rules as they went along.


OptimusGrimes

>This was quite a hard season to get top 4 I would disagree with this, United were in the running up until 2 weeks ago and they've been dire all season >Look at the competition, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs all significantly improved from last season I don't disagree with that but that's the main reason I don't understand the outlook, if you look at the competition, Arsenal overachieved, they were one result off top 4 but are they going to continue to overachieve next season? If you can't get top 4 when you are overachieving, when are you going to?


Wasssan

Our point tally if we beat Everton would have been enough to get top 4 for the past two seasons.


sandbag-1

United weren't really in the running for a while. Last season even West Ham made it into the top 4 running for ages, it was definitely worse then. Arsenal are highly likely to have a far better squad next season than this season. None of our important players should leave and we will be able to make additions, like depth in our weak areas which were exposed by injuries, and a first choice striker who can score more than 2 open play goals in a season


OptimusGrimes

well I can't fault Arsenal fans and their optimism, had an argument with 3 of my mates who are Arsenal fans, all of them think Arsenal could win the league in the next 3 years which is mental to me. But I suppose we'll see, this argument will just end up being a moot point in the end


BarbaricGamer

> I think it'll be a while before they get another chance Why? The squad will keep developing. It's not like they have aging players at their peaks. New signings will strengthen the squad too.


OptimusGrimes

yea, but Spurs and Chelsea are also still developing, and I would say they're both a bit closer to being the finished article, though I suppose that is an opinion. But at the end of the day, Arsenal, while over achieving, couldn't limp over the line, even when they didn't have European football


remote_crocodile

I mean Spurs haven't played a European game since November hardly like they are playing PL games in between european semi finals like West Ham were


TigerBasket

Ehh Arteta is a good manager I could see it happen, he won an FA cup that isn't nothing. Maybe not next season but if he gets reinforced whenever Chelsea have their once in a decade collapse for no reason they could get in.


OptimusGrimes

>if he gets reinforced whenever Chelsea have their once in a decade collapse for no reason they could get in. But that sort of proves my point, the only chance you've given them is a team above them collapsing


Careless-Neat9425

I could have said this exact thing about liverpool years ago. Teams improve.


BarbaricGamer

The people saying this Arsenal team finishing 5th is a failure are the same people that put them down to finish 9th at the start of the season.


bearhos

I think it's more of underachieving in an "end of the season" way, kinda like what happened to leicester at the end of last year. They went from CL to Europa which felt like a disappointment rather than a success. Its all about the context, Arsenal in my opinion have still overachieved compared to where I thought they'd be at the beginning of this season


PakiIronman

Using Leicester as a comparison is a great example. It was in their hands and they bottled it.


try-D

> They went from CL to Europa which felt like a disappointment rather than a success. At least we still got that FA Cup to make up for it


BarbaricGamer

Lack of squad depth caught up in the end, missing Partey and Tierney ultimately killed the chance of top 4.


PenneAllaTotti

as well as Tomiyasu and White


ro-row

I had people at the beginning of the season try and genuinely claim that Aston Villa were better than us


PakiIronman

Expectations change over a season, it's very fun saying that "oh nobody gave an arsenal a chance to be even in this position" and that's true. But then they were in the position and bottled it. 5th/6th were the higest most were saying because nobody thought United will collapse like they did. They had no European football and got knocked out of domestic cups in January, they had 1 match a week, didn't invest in January and instead let players go. Emery came 5th and had a poor start the next season and got sacked. Arteta has come in, gotten 8th twice and now is likely to get 5th. That's not progress, it's certainly not a success because 5th clearly wasn't good enough before. They should have pushed for 4th, another opportunity is not gonna be handed to them like this next season. Both their strikers are out of contract, so they'll need more depth up top too, and that's the hardest thing to get right at this level.


BarbaricGamer

Stopped reading when you tried to put the first 8th place on Arteta and not on Emery. Always easy to spot the disingenous people that way.


MouseMD369

If they finish 5th they bottled it massively .


chandlerbing_stats

Wenger makes top 4 Troopz: “WENGER OUT” Arteta doesn’t make top 4 Troopz: “ARTETA OUT”


GordonOP0000HK

"Trust The Process" unless they are already kicked out from europa league group stage or else they will have to put (some/relatively more) efforts to the european competition and it is expected more frequent schedules, less rest time, and you know. This is probably their best chance this season.


TottenhamDan

Copium is a helluva drug


djmonsta

People forget that at the beginning of the Season the aim was top 6 for Europa League.


Brashmate

People here acting like Spurs played tons of European football. They played 5 games against a bunch of farmers and somehow that’s meant to affect how they play in the league compared to arsenal?


NeonUprising

Spurs played 16 cup matches this season (including the ECL qualifiers), while Arsenal only played 7. Huge difference


makinghfsproud

Doesn't add up. 1 more fa cup. Same level in Carabao. There's 3 qualifying matches for conference? 5 matches in group stage cause u ran from one match. I'm sure those matches against heavyweights like Vitesse and Mura were exhausting!


cammyg

People also overlooking that they have 2 of the best attacking players in the world, plus a world class manager at the helm. In my opinion it reflects much worse on Spurs that Arsenal almost pipped them to top 4


DejaHu

You’re conveniently missing Nuno, Kane mentally at the golf course for months, Arteta going into his 3rd year after spending more than anyone in Europe this summer, Conte not even having a preseason / summer window with possibly the worst wingbacks of his career. Or are you going to deny that these have had an effect?


ret990

All about presentation isn't it? Did you realise with your obligation to buy your loan signings you're actually the highest spending club in Europe this season. And you just scraped fourth, how shit must you be... See how easy it is to twist narratives...


cammyg

I think having 2 of the best players in the world and one of the best managers in the world trumps all the above, yes.


CheekyKunt68

No fucking shit. We’re usually shoe-in’s for champs league football but our season had the worst start possible that we went h2h with Arsenal. It’s a fucking insult for the season to be that bad so yes, it does reflect badly on Spurs that they had to compete with Arsenal


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cammyg

What, having 2 of the best players in the world?


Dismal_Answer6615

Nobody expected Arsenal to get top 4. But if you were told that Leicester and Man United would be absolutely terrible this season, you would have expected Arsenal or Tottenham to get top 4, and there is no reason why Arsenal fans shouldn’t see Tottenham getting it before them as a failure.


w8up1

I think with Auba s sharp decline it’s pretty easy to see why, player for player, why spurs did better. Kane and Son are incredible, Arsenal just do not have a comparable squad. Not reinforcing in January was a big miss tho.


thediabolicalkid

Is it mathematically impossible for them to get top 4?


themerinator12

Gotta win while Tottenham lose or beat Everton by 16 with a Tottenham draw.


fuzzynavel34

It's not but it's also not going to happen.


keaneonyou

I wish I had your confidence...


Road_Frontage

This talk is so fucking embarrassing and shows such a lack of foresight and ambition at the club, particularly in January. No, you couldn't have predicted that spurs, Manu and Leicester were going to have crisses this year but it was very clear how much of an opportunity it was in January and they did worse than no business. It was painfully obvious the team was paper thin and severaly lacking in experience. Weak mentality from the management and then an inevitable collapse by bunch of kids with no back ups for injuries. All these headlines are making it even more annoying as a fan. How much of a boost is this to Spurs? Conte could have been gone, Kane would have been a lot more restless.


Mempherrata

Probably should wait for the season to end before already acting like Arsenal are playing Europa League but I love all this noise coming from their end that they didn't expect top four anyway as if it makes them bottling it from a prime position any better.


InLampsWeTrust

Let’s be honest it’s highly unlikely Norwich will get anything from Spurs on Sunday lol.


imarandomdudd

Come on, Spurs will never miss a chance to be spursy


scrandymurray

Where are ya? Let’s be havin’ ya


TheGoldenPineapples

> but I love all this noise coming from their end that they didn't expect top four anyway as if it makes them bottling it from a prime position any better. No way Manchester United fans are giving Arsenal fans shit for not expecting top four, that's like getting run over by an ambulance level of irony.


spawnofyanni

Not sure what point you're making here. United fans typically expect top 4, especially 2+ years into a project. You're hard pressed to find someone tolerating 5th in Ole's or Jose's 3rd years, that's where the disappointment comes from. It seems like you're implying that we don't expect it?


Mempherrata

You were in prime position and shat the bed, is that not a fact? We've been shit this season, you won't any United fan denying that. I don't really see the irony here pal.


YMangoPie

We were overachieving but we also bottled it. Both are true not one or the other.


Tirewipes

Why does no one bring up the disaster class that happened this season for United when they talk about how they failed to make top 4? A mid season sacking of a coach, the loss of a integral part of the attack (Greenwood), and a intern manager who wasn’t allowed any signings in January…


BauerUK

“we meant to bottle it mate jokes on you”


Buffythedragonslayer

So in the season they had midweeks off they didn't expect top 4 finish?


BaoJinyang

Above who? They are clearly massively weaker than City, Liverpool and Chelsea. Spurs are stronger player for player, fielded weakened teams in Europe and didn’t even bother playing all six of their ECL games. It wasn’t some massive advantage for Arsenal.


jerk_chicken23

Man U were the main people we all expected to be up there at the beginning of the season, as silly as it sounds in hindsight


BaoJinyang

Yeah. I think fifth was probably a realistic aim for Arsenal at start of the season but I’d have had them below United and above Spurs rather than the other way around.


TigerBasket

We had our star striker like score 1 goal in our first 11 games or something, we fired our manager and finished like 7th last year. This season we were projected to like finish 6th at best, they very well could have overtaken us, they didn't and that should be disappointing for them. I will however enjoy it though


BarbaricGamer

Even Kane with 1 goal is better and more impactful than Lacazette.


mintz41

> We had our star striker like score 1 goal in our first 11 games or something Yeah, imagine that being extrapolated over an entire season. That's been Arsenal's striker situation all year lmao


ro-row

> finished like 7th last year Thing is mourinho for all his bluster did worse with you lot than he should have despite what his online defence force will argue


sandbag-1

In the season we had the 5th or 6th best squad in the league we didn't expect guaranteed 4th, no. Short memory from everyone's predictions at the start of the season? Europe is barely as relevant as anyone says. Spurs haven't had Europe since November either


Fatt_Hardy

In the season you bought Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane you are fighting for 6th. I wouldn't be so quick to judge.


Buffythedragonslayer

I know but we expected a lot more than what happened


TigerBasket

With no Europe it's a lot worse that they didn't finish top 4 but if you told any Arsenal fan they would have finished 5th at the start of the season they would have been happy I would imagine. Still shows how far they've fallen over the past 2 decades but still.


DVPC4

more like the past 5 years


Fatt_Hardy

After the opening 3 games of the season, 5 place seemed like a far off distant impossibility. So, yeah. We would have taken it. As for your little jibe about our decline over the past 2 decades: in those 2 decades we have still won substantially more than you. You have won 1 league cup in that time. We have won the league twice, the FA cup 7 times, and the Community shield 6 times (which isn't important but it's 6 times more than you have). Your team even manged to finish 3rd in a 2 horse race with Leicester.


jesalr

Legitimately, up until 2 or so months back, did anyone expect them to finish 4th? No disrespect to them at all, but everyone started the season with the expectations being that the top 4 stayed the same. I'd say even around January more people would expect them not to make top 4 than expected them to get it. They had a great opportunity to make it, but I'm assuming the finance and scouting teams can't do their jobs based on a hope that they did make it.


InTheMiddleGiroud

We played, what 5 and 6 games less than Tottenham and Man United? And had a smaller squad. This midweek-thing has been completely overstated. We have by far the youngest team in the league. It's clear the team is built to grow into the top four and hopefully further. We missed out on top 4 through the gap between Partey and the rest of our midfield in quality, and particularly the lack of quality up front.


8u11etpr00f

This is some major copium from the Arsenal higher ups lmao, pretty sure our owners said something similar last year tho 😅


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Brashmate

Why would you build your transfer window around getting top 4 if you might not get it? That just sounds stupid to me


DekiTree

In his 3rd season after spending 250m. Replacing Emery who finished 5th


Babnu

Why would Jesus downgrade?


themerinator12

For more minutes. It's how we got Odegaard. Man wanted to play so he had to leave Real Madrid to do it.


kl08pokemon

Shows for their ambition


CousinCE

So much copium in this thread. So sad to see the Arsenal football club I grew up watching dominate England are now finishing 5th and it's being called a "great season". Choking top 4 and it being brushed off as "oh, well we have a young squad". I really hate to see it, you should strive to be like Chelsea, City and Liverpool not Tottenham and West Ham.