By - El_Miguelito
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absolutely stupid goal/game numbers. Remember when a 30 goal season used to be unreal?
It still is, maybe people will come off of it once these guys retire for good.
I do wonder about that though. Lewandowski and Suarez have both had unbelievable seasons where they had totals that would have been unbelievable in the 00s. I think both tactical changes and the rise of superclubs are also responsible for the growth in the goals a season of top players.
Lewandowski and Suarez would both be regarded much more highly in terms of all time legacy if it were not for Ronaldo/Messi. Better for me than Henry, Ibra, Aguero, or anyone else really in my lifetime except R9.
As strikers, absolutely I don’t think anyone would argue with that.
yes I meant as strikers. There are other players in the last 25 years who I think are all-timers who I think all get underrated in terms of historical legacy because of Messi/Ronaldo.
Robben is low key one.
Luka Modric is surely up there with the best CMs to ever grace the game
Has anyone asked Micah Richards?
Better than Henry?
On the same level but better?
People forget so fast.
At their peak, certainly. Suarez’s best season in the pl is better then Henry’s and that’s ignoring his true peak at Barcelona. With lewa the numbers difference is just too large to ignore.
Arsenal also had a much stronger squad
Yeah and Liverpool during Suarez's time had muppets in comparison to that Arsenal squad.
Suarez also didn't take a single pen in 13/14. If he had (Gerrard took something like 10), it'd be one of those records that would probably stand for ages and people would wonder how that was possible. He was also suspended for the first 5 games of the season for the bite.
Unreal stuff when you consider all that.
I think lewy benzema and Suarez are all better than Henry and Henry was the first non-home club kit i owned as a youngster..
Henry at Arsenal definitely hit the heights of Suarez or Lewandowski. Probably the best forward I’ve ever seen bar Ronaldo and Messi. Played some lovely stuff too.
Ibra is definitely in the conversation with Suarez and Lewy not only his stats are similar but the goals he scored we haven't seen from any other strikers. And i don't just say that because he plays for us.
I think the fact that he never consolidated as a Legend for any team, hurts the vision we have about him
Zlatan isn’t part of team’s legends… teams are part of Zlatan’s legend
At the same time he was more versatile than either Lewa or Suarez in his ability to fit into so many teams...
It is interesting. The likes of Pele get memed in here for having hundreds of goals against “farmers”, but we’re now seeing players who get far more goals in a season than they would in say the 90s and 00s
Pele gets meme'd on cause he counts the goals from matches that weren't even official.
People forget that most of the friendly matches he played weren’t against the likes of his neighbours or a small Uruguayan team, they were exhibition matches against teams like AC Milan, Real Madrid, Atletico, Manchester United, Inter, and Liverpool.
>People forget that most of the friendly matches he played weren’t against the likes of his neighbours or a small Uruguayan team
The point is he counts the matches and goals he scored against random small teams in what were essentially training matches.
Anyway- He was recognised as the Goat of the period between 1958 to 1974, winning three world cups on that period. Maybe the fellas calling him the Goat aren't ignorant?
You can recognise him as the, or one of the GOATs, and still not take his goal tally seriously.
People forget that back in Pelé's era, football's competitions weren't clearly structured as now. "Official" and friendly games weren't a difference anywhere near as clear as today. You are looking at 1960s football stats with the eyes of 2022. Same problem for people who look down upon the state championships.
Pele played like one game in the 1962 win, garrincha was the star of that one.
Who said they were ignorant?
Do you have the number of how many are those? Go look it up, seriously, and then remove that and take the average again. He has almost no friendlies against smaller teams, it is like 30-50 games, a 100 at most depending on your definition of "small", the weirdest are against NT teams or something equivalent. It makes sense, since friendlies were a way for Santos to make money (both in Europe, in Brazil or anywhere), and you make a lot more money playing, for example, Barcelona in a friendly than a small team (they sold 90k tickets for game in Camp Nou). And they were touring the world a lot in these friendlies to make money. Santos played 100+ games in some years.
And his goal/game ratio in official games and friendlies is about the same. His goal/game in official games is 757/812 = 0.93. The same, in friendlies is... 526/554 = 0.95.
A full breakdown: https://www.quora.com/How-many-goals-did-Pele-score-in-his-career
>People forget that most of the friendly matches he played weren’t against the likes of his neighbours or a small Uruguayan team, they were exhibition matches against teams like AC Milan, Real Madrid, Atletico, Manchester United, Inter, and Liverpool.
But that happens in todays game too. Big teams often go up against each other in friendlies, yet they don't add those goals to their tally.
Part of it is also that players tend to stay healthier now, they have fewer injuries and their peaks are longer, and they play more games.
Some strikers back then had comparable numbers. Ruud van Nistelrooy from 1998-2009 scored 291 goals in 405 apps, which is 0.72 goal per game.
For comparison, Suarez from 2007-2020 scored 391 goals in 575 games, a rate of 0.68.
van Nistelrooy took more penalties, but they're still fairly similar.
Etoo had a 0.66 rate in 5 years for Barca despite taking only 6 penalties, which is also a similar level, but he also missed a good chunk of games during these peak years due to injury.
Suarez over 13 seasons played 170 more games than RvN did in 11 seasons. He averages 44 apps per season this period, while van Nistelrooy averaged 37. Eto'o averaged 40 games during the 5 years for Barca. While Suarez was at Barca, he averaged 47 apps per season.
So while Suarez and Lewandowski are extremely prolific and have been at the top for a long time, their goal ratio is not necessarily much higher than the best strikers in the world in the 00s - but they play more games and remain at the top for more seasons.
Part of being healthier now is the fitness regimen as well.
Players aren't smoking cigs in the locker rooms. They have nutritionists and physios. It's a faster game and, as you noted, they're playing a lot more of them.
Some of the historic greats would still be great nowadays. Beckenbauer or Cruyff, for example, would’ve benefitted from better sports science in ways that I believe would have them still winning Ballon d’Or or at least competing for those titles.
Then there are some whose lifestyles would have made it practically impossible for them to become professionals. George Best is probably the best example. Pure talent and undoubtably skilled, but playing hungover nowadays just *isn’t* possible.
I mean it’s likely with modern pressure/demands from coaches even at the youth level, someone like Best would have never got that bad in terms of lifestyle. And even so, I mean Ronaldinho loved a good party, but even he could pull himself together even if only for a few years and light up the pitch.
Frankly, the only valid comparison with past greats should be in terms of technical ability and to an extent natural athleticism(obviously most modern players would be better trained, and drugged, so they are better at cardio and whatnot, but you can still see who would have been peak atheletes even today).
Guys like Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Matthaus, Platini, Gullitt, Van Basten, Garrincha, Eusebio, Maradona etc would’ve dominated today too. I mean to this day nobody has the technique of Diego, not even Messi.
As for athletics, watch the highest quality of footage you can find of Pele or Eusebio. Eusebio is basically like Mbappe before Mbappe, as for Pele, I frankly do not think we have seen another combination of technique, speed, power, strength, creativity and footballing IQ in a player ever since. He truly had everything.
This is a great highlight of Pele:
>I think both tactical changes and the rise of superclubs are also responsible for the growth in the goals a season of top players.
I'd say it's more the tactical changes. Teams are just a lot better at getting the most out of their stars tactically.
Superclubs have been a thing for a long time. Several old teams were absolutely stacked at one point or another. The Milan team of the 00's, the Galacticos, the Milan team in the early 90s.
early 90s Barca was literally called "the dream team"
and also had the "Dutch" Milan of 80s
50s Real had a Argentinean and Hungarian leading the charge
yep, always been a thing.
we'll see how Mbappe and Haaland shape up but I think you're right, it just so happened that Messi and Ronaldo are both freaks and happened to come around at the same time. They probably pushed each other too so that helped exacerbate the problem
it was a problem for every other striker that has to be compared to them haha
It was also a problem for every team opposing them.
Mitrovic would like a word
Fuck, I was a teen in the 00s and I used to think Raul's UCL goals record was untouchable lol
I remember how much of a big deal it was when Pauleta broke Eusébio's record as top scorer of all-time for Portugal. Everyone was saying it would take a long time for anyone to score as many goals again. Jump to now, and Ronaldo is on his way to triple Pauleta's tally.
Feels like we're going back to those numbers. Benzema having a BdO season with 27 league goals with his only real contender having 22
Also in the Premier League, Salah is top scorer with 22, Ronaldo is third with 18.
messi is 2nd in assists in his league, ronaldo is 3rd in goals in his league
not bad for a couple of "finished players"
They're "finished" in the sense that now they're human beings again. :p
Arguable that if Ronaldo was on a more competent team like City he'd have scored 40 by now lol.
What Ronaldo has done for United this season is nothing short of heroic. Hasn’t his goals won the most pts in the league?
Also had 6 goals in 6 group stage games that were vital to getting them out of the group stage.
People saying he’s finished or the problem are insane, still one of the best players in the league at 37 it’s ridiculous.
110% agreed. People blaming him are absolute idiots. Hes only 4 league goals behind a prime Salah on a UCL final team while being 37 on a complete dog water United team. Its actually amazing the gymnastics people will do to discredit Ronaldo.
I feel like Benzema's main ballon d'or push is because of the magnitude and importance of his goals not necessarily how many he scored
His 15 goals in the CL are very high; only twice has anyone scored more and only twice has anyone matched it.
No prizes for guessing who's done it.
Lol when I read some stat “Benzema is only the second player in UCL history to score two consecutive knockout hat tricks” I just knew immediately who the first was gonna be
Hes still one of the top scorers. If he only had scored these important CL goals and had 0 goals in league he would stand no chance in Ballon d'Or race.
He also has a fuck-ton of assist, and it's not like there isn't a player that has insane numbers, Lewy still is a beast.
We still use the term “20 goals a season striker” as a measure of a good reliable forward
People used to look at Thierry Henry as a god until Messi and Ronaldo.
I still do 😩
You're not alone.
People still do, as evidenced by the talk around Harry Kane passing him on the all time PL goal list.
A consistent 20 in the league is great
i have to always tell myself this when im playing FM and getting mad at my strikers for only scoring every other game or so.
But it's more fun this way 😔
that vodaphone kit
Ronaldo in AIG kit though
The 08 (?) racing stripe with long sleeves was the best kit
His numbers with Carlo was unreal and no wonder he was super pissed when Carlo was sacked after 2015 season.
Little did he know
Yeah Benitez was shite.
I completely forgot about the Benitez hire lol. So Everton following Madrid's coaching trajectory are almost getting them relegated.
I remember that hire distinctively because I was unemployed at the time, and I joked with my friends that if this guy could land the Madrid job I could land something as well.
I did. And like Benitez, I was fired a few months into my job.
Im sry pal
So Benitez was chosen because he won Champions League in 2005?
Still one of the dumbest sacking decisions Perez has ever made imo. Man won La Decima and lost La Liga by 2 Points to one of the best teams we’ve seen in world football (14-15 Barca). Didn’t deserve to be treated how he did, proving that this season
Turned out all right tbh
it was for zidane tho
It was for Rafa Benitez
he was a sacrificial pawn
That wasnt really in the plans tho
Was it Ancelotti that said during his first spell at Madrid, something like “with Ronaldo on the team sheet we start every game 1-0 up”. Which is an astonishing statement but looking at his numbers, a completely fair comment
Ancelotti just let the BBC steamroll whatever was in front, it was almost unfair.
People will obviously talk about the MSN, and Pep's City breaking the PL goal record, but no team in recent years has had the same forward drive as 13-14 and 16-17 Real Madrid.
Arguably, the BBC nailing Bayern and the collapse of Spain in 2014 changed the trend of football from possession to a more aggressive game. Our last two world champions have been scoring machines.
where is MASETRO PIRLO ??
Ole as well
Can’t forget Ragnick
Get Carrick in there too
Fun fact: Cristiano's [best goals / min stats of his career](https://www.transfermarkt.com/cristiano-ronaldo/leistungsdatentrainer/spieler/8198/plus/1) were under Carrick.
Carrick never lost in his managerial career, let that sink in
Explosive under Jose and Carlo.
He did it all, long-short range shooting, dribbling, skills, stepovers, headers, crosses etc.
EDIT : Explosive under SAF as well, also i do remember them bangers he scored out of nowhere.
His numbers under Mourinho are ridiculous beyond belief
I mean from this graphic his numbers under Carlo seem even better.
Both are impressive but I think the volume of games is what makes his numbers under Mourinho slightly more impressive to me
His best league campaign was under Carlo, he scored 48 league goals in 14-15. And won no trophies. Wild stuff.
He also got 17 assists in the league that season, absolutely insane form
Back when I used to not even bother watching us play bottom 7-8 teams in the table. I’d check my phone after the match and was surprised if we scored fewer than 4 goals. Put 8 past coruña, 5 past Elche athletic levante and rayo, 9 past Granada and 7 past getafe. Averaged 3.1 goals per match. Lost the league by 2 points and lost both Madrid derbies that year, just brutal.
And he was subbed off in the last game after getting a hatrick in the first half. Wonder if he could have broken 50 then
That’s what happens when the competition has MSN ig
That season was a roller coaster. After a damaging 4-2 loss at Anoeta from 0-2, we became an unstoppable juggernaut that was crushing everything in its path and setting world records for consecutive victories across all competitions.
Barça on the other hand (at least as reported publicly) was haemorrhaging under internal strife, discord and the pressure that a seemingly invincible Madrid creates in those parts (and vice versa TBF).
Then Mestalla happened. We capitulated as fatigue and injuries hit us at the most inopportune times. They got their act together. Bale missed a chance eerily similar to his winner last year in the return leg against Juve in a tie we were arguably better in.
One of the, if not the best team to not win a single trophy.
He was in his peak under Mourinho so it makes sense that he had better numbers under Mourinho.
They are better under Ancelotti by a fair bit
Higher goals per game and much higher assists per game.
Dribbling, skills and stepovers, the same category, innit
You can see why Ronaldo was not happy that Carlo was sacked first time around. He really hit another level during those two years (1.57 G+A per game!!).
Of course, there were problems but people were willing to sweep them under the rug to rebuild for next season. But a trophyless season, coupled with Barca winning the treble, meant it was curtains.
Madrid won the Club World Cup and the Euro Super Cup that season
I consider supercups to be part of the previous season’s haul. We literally couldn’t have participated in those comps if we didn’t win the CL *the previous season*.
Spike hair Ronaldo > Noodles Ronaldo
[Long sleeve Ronaldo](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3e8f017c749da9d95f0a6b8f39d0de27-lq) with them rolled up a little bit was "I mean business" Ronaldo
When I was a kid I exclusively got long sleeved kits and always rolled them up entirely because of CR7.
That was only 5 years ago. You’re still a kid
He did it at [Manchester United](https://images.app.goo.gl/PUgN4f3LgEfvguiV7) too
Noodles Ronaldo was the champions extension
Always, the noodle hair is recognized more because it’s recent.
He had noodle hair in his initial United stint though.
Noodle hair Ronaldo is more recognized because he's arguably the most clutch version of any player in history. Spiky hair Ronaldo was far, far more complete and a better dribbler.
Exactly. That run of UCL knockout games in 16/17 starting at the Allianz arena where he arrived in awful form was bonkers. And against teams with outstanding defence. Bayern/Atletico/Juve conceded 20 goals in 30 games before facing Ronaldo that season. He scored 10 in 5 against them.
> because it’s recent
I remember the noodle hair from his Sporting days. He briefly returned to the noodle hair more recently, but his noodle hair phase was in his teens, early 20s.
>noodle hair is recognized more because it’s recent
how to spot the uninitiated
Fake teeth Ronaldo >>>>> Split teeth Ronaldo.
wtf did jose feed him
You mean Ancelotti?!
CR7 became a goal scoring machine under Jose and his peak was under Jose as well.
His most significant goals at Madrid were later under Zidane in the CL. Also became far better internationally after turning 30. Interesting how he became more clutch in knockout rounds despite scoring fewer overall. This is also missing quite a chunk of his Madrid spell under various managers and all of Juve as well.
People forget how much the knee injury impacted him. He was still a great dribbler after it but it was never the same as pre payet knee injury. Such a dirty fucking play, so happy payet was basically blacklisted after it
He injured his knee in 2014.
It's a shame that his highest team achievements came after his prime. Lot of people will associate him as a pure bred scorer, when he was so much more than that.
One could very easily and very reasonably claim that Cristiano had 3 distinct peaks in a career so illustrious that his off seasons would qualify as best seasons for most players.
However, personally speaking, 11-12 Cristiano was peak. Perhaps, it was the context of the team or perhaps it was so on account of it being unprecedented and the novelty factor but his finishing that season was otherworldly. I might be biased but I side with him in being wronged to not be awarded the winner of that frivolous, glorified popularity contest.
His point of the criterion changing from one season to another was one I felt was valid.
Tbf out of all Ronaldo records, not winning European golden shoe despite scoring 46 goals is something that might never be broken
I mean 2 players scoring 45+ league goals in the same season is ridiculous
Dude those were the most famous messi peak seasons. The thing was that ronaldo’s best season was the same as Messi’s. The issue is that messi got that mind blowing 91 goal year as that while ronaldo 69
You think he deserved it over Messi in 2012? The year Messi got 91 goals and 22 assists?
Ronaldo was incredible but I feel like that's the least arguable year they had.
Cr7 won the most important trophies tbf in that year. Remember until 2013 and 2014, trophies won played a very important role.
A player could be shit the entire year but his performance at the world cup would win him the world best
Lol that was the one season he had no argument to get it over Messi
> CR7 became a goal scoring machine under Jose
Yet he has more goals per game under Ancelotti
Maintaining a similar ratio with 50% more games is more impressive imo
This isn’t your opinion. This is objectively true
Played his best football under Mourinho.
Ronaldo of 2011-12 is easily the most complete footballer i have seen
I agree. Ridiculously good at carrying the ball forward, brilliant crossing and passing, powerful free kicks and a physical beast. He was like a video game made real.
Put in a good shift at defence as well, unlike normal Ronaldo
Dread from it, run from it. That Real Madrid Counter needed no midfield, just one pass from Ozil/Xabi and 4 sprinters into opponent 18.
Ronaldo and ozil were most important players. My favourite team to watch. They were incredible. Such a shame that they never won UCL. Team were scared of taking corners against them
13-14 and 11-12 are the best CR7 seasons imo. 14-15 is underrated too (Madrid didn’t win any of the 3 major trophies that season tho)
It was underrated because messi was unbelievable that year..but yeah 14-15 was a proper ballon d or worthy season.
Idk 14/15 I remember even when he scored a lot he started getting criticisms for being a pure goal scorer. He was definitely. Better from 2011-2014 when he affected the game more
its probably because Carlo said "fuck defending,Marcelo go brrrr"
Carlo when has good defenders goes, we defend in the midfield line... dude what? Yes, CBs at the midfield line.
Mourinho's Madrid were killers from back to front
Those Pep vs Mourinho teams were peak football. Been watching since 2007 but man nothing comes close too the intensity and drama of those years. The quality of the games itself was just ooh la la. And then we got that 2012 Champions League campaign where those teams at the height of their powers got beat by Bayern and Chelsea, what a year for football that one.
Insane numbers. Let’s see how he does with us next season under ETH. Hopefully we actually build somewhat of a team this summer
If Mbappe could bring half of this energy to Madrid, the club will be set for the next 10 years.
Man, this Alex Ferguson fella must suck. Less than half the goals per game compared to the others.
Ronaldo maxed out every stat possible: left foot, right foot, headers, speed, positioning, etc. Only person he couldn’t defeat was Father Time but he is putting one hell of a fight.
He was out for blood under Jose. So reliable, so scary :)
Mou Ronaldo was a different beast
Those goal/game numbers….man, I don’t think we’ll ever get someone like him.
Where is ole
At the wheel?
Ah the good Ole days
He’s been in Manchester a lot still watching his daughter play.
and the carousel of Juve managers
Also Benitez and others at Madrid.
Who are the "others"? IIRC it's just Benitez and his debut season under Pellegrini. Lope and Solari were appointed the season he departed.
Looks like it's the managers he's played the most games under, lads. Think it through.
Given that he and Mourinho apparently had a falling out at Madrid, it's still remarkable how he got that many goals as a winger/inside forward. With Ancelotti and Zidane (post knee injury) he become a ridiculous clutch player that was averaging more than a goal a game. I'd be remiss not to praise that 07/08 season. Similar to his usage in Mourinho's team (out wide) he managed to get 42 goals in a season which I still hold as the best individual season of any player in England.
Freak of a man. If you were transported here from the past, you would think that those stats were a typo
2011/12 Madrid was a scoring beast.
Simple as that bruh
Sir Alex created a monster while Ancelotti, Mourinho and Zidane used that monster to win trophies
man... that's consistency
His best goal contributions x match has come under Ancelotti, contributing to 1.57 goals x match. Under Mou that drops to 1.3.
Is it a popular opinion to say that CR7 peak was under Ancelotti?
CR7 doesn't have a peak, it is more of a plateau.
It's the fucking Himalayas. There were definite peaks but the crests are still beyond the reach of most mortals.
Tbh Cristiano has been so good you could say his peak was 2007-2020.
It seems like his peak was the entirety of 2007-2018, he just kinda adapted his playstyle to fit his age/physical health. Dribbling Ronaldo at United was easily the best player in 2008, superstar dribbling+scoring Ronaldo was easily top 2 from 2011-2015, and extremely efficient clutch Ronaldo was easily the best player from 2016-2019.
I think it's really cool how his playstyle this season is pretty much *completely* different from his playstyle when he was 23 at United and yet he's still elite in his role. It's probably a mix of natural footballing intelligence along with a hell of a lot of hard work.
Yes, playstyle wise his peak was still the 2013/2014 season under Carlo imo.
Numbers wise it's probably 2014/2015 when he had 84 G+A in 54 games so both seasons were under Carlo.
He became more of a striker (played more in the box) under Carlo.
Mou Cr7 was the best complete version of him... scoring long ranges, freekicks, dribbling, skills, even defending more.
People even said he started being "only a goalscorer" under Carlo
Ronaldo was a goal machine at Madrid. But I much preferred his play style when at United. Tricky winger, explosive, and great on both wings or centrally.
Early-Real Madrid-career Ronaldo was the best Ronaldo. He became an elite finisher, while still being an electric winger, with all the flair. Ironically he won more once he changed his game up a little, after his knee injury.
You guys basically got the finished product after United trained him to that point. 07/08 i’d say was his first year as the complete offensive weapon, with his 1:1 GA/G ratio,then Madrid got him after the 08/09 season
>Tricky winger, explosive, and great on both wings or centrally.
All of that still applies to pre-2015 Ronaldo at Real Madrid. His knee injury is what caused the change in his playstyle.
Yeah I don't know why people think he became a poacher as soon as he joined us. It was after that kneee injury he changed his play
>His knee injury is what caused the change in his playstyle.
Led the team to 3 CLs afterwards, insane determination and the greatest European player ever
Before his injury in 2014, I honestly think his Real Madrid’s version is his peak and the best player I have ever seen. He was literally an one man army
He was still all of that from 2009 to 2013, but extremely efficient and a complete monster. That was his peak for sure
He was like this at Madrid too but just better for years. At least 4
Imagine if he started in Spain, he'd be the undisputed goat.
the disrespect to Pellegrini
To be fair it was just one season. but the stats would be 35 games, 33 goals and 10 assists.
Didn't he play 2 seasons under Sarri?
Sarri only managed the 19/20 season with Juventus. Stats for that were 46 games 37 goals and 7 assists.
Those numbers under Ancelotti and Mourinho are insane.
He was right winger under SAF.
Lol he’s the greatest ever