By - Cosminion
We need to change the definition of young player because 23 is starting to feel like a more settled in/experienced age than it maybe was.
Totally. He has 28 caps for England. He's basically a seasoned pro now.
Rice has been West Ham's captain for most of the season, what with Noble being a squad player now. Way too experienced to be in this category.
Maybe keep the same age, but put a limit on the number of senior appearances? Will account for (relatively) late blooming youngsters.
By 23, players such as Fergie's Fledglings, Henry, Ljungberg, Vieira, Fowler, Owen, Heskey, Murphy, Carragher, Raul, Morientes, etc etc were already seasoned professionals and starters for their respective clubs.
Messi had a fricken ballon d'or by that age
And El Fenomeno Ronaldo has 2 by 22.
Should be u21 with a cap on games played
Yeah I think anyone who’s “registered” as an u21 player (ie not in the registered squad) and has less than a full season’s worth of senior appearances at the start of the season is eligible for that year
21 is the limit imo.
It's crazy how this conversation comes up every year where everyone resoundingly agrees but still they keep it like it is.
The one that sticks out to me is that Harry Kane was nominated in 2018 when he was 24, almost 25. He already had 3 previous back-to-back seasons with 20+ goals each on-top of the 30 he had scored that year.
That is not a young player, that is an experienced player hitting their prime.
Should be less than 23 yrs old and less than 50 league games or something
It’s never been an age you associate with young players in general, wouldn’t say it’s recently outdated
prime years start 27-28 for most. 23 is still fully developing other than literally young
There are loads of examples of very experienced pros by the age of 23. Just because many are still young and developing doesn’t mean this still isn’t weird when certain players win it. Rooney had been playing PL football for 7 years by that point and had won 3 league titles and a champions league.
so you could say he won 3 league titles at a very young age
Yes, he was absolutely deserving of young player of the year. Just earlier than 2009. Ronaldo had won the ballon d’or and moved to Madrid for £80m at 23 years old. The point is you’re not even benefitting the players just breaking through at 23 by allowing the rules as they are because there will be some early bloomer long established as a senior player that will win over them so they won’t have a chance anyway. Imo if you’re keeping it at 23 then there needs to be some other limit, appearances maybe.
Romero vs Díaz is certainly tough choice but I think it will favour attacker most probably. I will add the brazilian from Newcastle too.
The choice is easy, its Kulusevski.
Gimme gimme gimme a ginger from Sweden...
number 21, his name is kulusevski…
He came from Juventus and he plays on the wing
Agree with Kulusevski. Also Cucurella has been brilliant for Brighton and deserves some recognition as well
Only thing against him is that he came in January
So did diaz though
That’s why Romero wins
kuluevski also deserves to be up there
Yeah not a bad shout. But then again it's easier to judge a forward because their is stats for them. Not true for defenders though as most stats will not give them benefit.
Yeah to me it’s gotta be Bruno G or Kulusevski. Diaz is brilliant but I reckon Liverpool is still #2 without him. No idea where Spurs or Newcastle are without those two
Without Diaz you’d be out of the title race, being able to rotate the wingers is crucial, nevermind the important goals he’s scored and assisted.
I don't even understand how there's a debate about this. Arguably I've got blinders on as an LFC supporter, but Diaz's impact has been huge. There's no way we're competing for four trophies without him in the squad.
There's debate about it because Kulusevski has 11 G/A and has helped Spurs to the brink of the Champions League as a starting player.
Diaz is excellent, but it's not blasphemous to say that Kulusevski has been marginally better. Kulusevski has a G/A every 101 minutes, Diaz 124. And that's despite Kulusevski also playing more games (and going without a G/A in his last 2).
Swap Mo Salah’s first half and second half of the season around and there is no debate about player of the year.
KDB got 5 goals and 0 assists in the first 19 games of the season, but being on fire at the end puts him in contention for these things.
They should just have a vote after each matchweek for top 3 players of each game. AFL decides their best player this way
Interesting idea but then what happens when teams have their games postponed? You cant retroactively change a previous vote
Still 3 votes per game and everyone plays the same amount of games anyway so votes get counted the same.
So sure someone might get extra votes in one matchweek but that's because they didn't get a chance to get any in the other week.
Yeah lol pretty much this, like how is that even a question. Everyone plays 38 games, person with most points wins, it's not rocket science
> Swap Mo Salah’s first half and second half of the season around and there is no debate about player of the year.
This is very true, recency bias is real.
like the people saying mane deserves the ballon dor this year too lmao recency bias is fucking insane
think a lot of that is to do with him winning afcon and, as of now, 2 domestic trophies, as well as a ucl final and a prem title challenge. we all know how much ballon d’or favours trophies so it makes sense he’s up there
Agreed. The best player of the best team in Europe will always be in the discussion for the ballon d'or, and winning the AFCON adds to his status.
If Liverpool win the quadruple, it would be hard to argue against Mane being in any of the top 3 positions.
if liverpool win the quadruple it’d be hard to argue it being anyone else to win it since he’d have one every competition he’d been in all season, whilst being one of if not the best player for club and country
Recency bias says Mahrez is a stat padder because he missed a pen. It happens with everyone in the PL
Mahrez is arguably city's best player this season but somehow the rumour is he costed them everything
Completely agree. It’s actually unfair how much criticism Salah is getting smh
Honestly Trent is a good shout, he has been consistent through out the season unlike KDB and Salah. Son also has been relatively consistent so yeah you can make a good case for him as well.
Son was the same and inconsistent at the beginning of the season
>Son from August to December: 8 goals, 3 assists in 16 games (1398 minutes)
>Salah post-Afcon: 6 goals, 4 assists in 14 games (1036 minutes)
Salah's 'terrible form' is pretty much the same as Son's first half lol
If they do any better, all of them contenders are gonna be posting prime messi figures.
None of them are even close to prime messi or ronaldo numbers lol.
I think 2 of Salahs goals are pens though
Still gotta score them. Riyad Mahrez takes penalties, and how's that going for him?
If we're using goal-contributions, then
Son = 11GA out of 21 Spurs goals (52%)
Salah = 10GA out of 31 Liverpool goals (32%)
Son carried Spurs in that first half of the season, while Salah is playing in a very good squad that can keep on winning even if he's out of form.
And? If you're arguing that Salahis inconsistent then Son is equally as inconsistent. Why would Salah be punished when his teammates doing well in his poor form?
Son carried the Spurs in the first half of the season tho..
Son carried us under Nuno, without Kane for the most part.
Scored the winners against City and Watford, got what ended up being the winner away to Newcastle.
yeah salah definetly deserves it. 2nd for me would be son and then kdb
If he did that, they would be saying he ghosted the first half of the season.
People will do everything they can to discount Salah.
Its definitely recency bias.
Despite Son being on form he is still behind Salah, who leads the league in goals and assists.
Salah should be nailed on imo, especially if he wins the golden boot.
Not wanting to start a debate on whether you should count penalties for top goal scorer, because they should count (pens can be missed or saved) but for POTY, with a one goal difference, I’d like people to appreciate that Son has a 25% conversion rate to Mo’s 16%.
I’m not saying Salah has a bad season or whatever, but Son’s efficiency has been remarkable (26% conversion rate vs 16% for Salah). I will even counter my own point by pointing out that Son missed more big chances than Salah. At the end of the day, it is what it is, and Salah has 6 more assists, but Son’s 21 are 20 open play and 1 FK, while Salah has 17 open play and 5 pens.
I’ll conclude by saying they’re both great players that contributed a lot to their teams in different ways (beyond goal scoring and assists), and that we live in a world where recency bias, trophy and stats bias aren’t often well balanced but that’s the game!
Don't get me wrong, Son has had a remarkable season especially given Spurs stuttering start under Nuno.
If this was basically a straight show down on who had more goals I'd probably give it to Son on the basis less were penalties. You do still have to score them but its easier than open play generally.
I think you've made the point yourself though that the assists put Salah on top. I'd also point out he created 18 big chances v 10 for Son, so that's another attacking metric he leads the league on.
He's managed to be more creative than KDB while still being the top scorer.
I know Dias won last year but I don't think anyone would have begrudged it going to Kane given his G/A numbers.
Well said. Salah’s assists put him over the top for me. As well as him not being a little bitch.
>Salah should be nailed on imo, especially if he wins the golden boot.
Harry Kane winning neither award last year proves this isn't as secure as you think.
Son has 2 more non penalty goals this season though, which should count for something. It's not just so cut and dry as to who scored the most goals
I do count non-penalty goals more highly when it comes to individual accolades but Salah also has 6 more assists and has more big chances created (18 v 10).
So he's ahead on all the major attacking metrics and as they're both attackers that means he's had the better season.
Its a close one, but Salah takes it for me.
KdB could say the same for his outrageous first half of 17/18, where he was head and shoulders the best player for a team who dropped 2 points in their first 19 fixtures.
City being so far clear in the second half of the season whilst Salah still fought for top 4 banging goals in during important fixtures put him in the conversation.
FWIW, I think KdB is beyond being on fire at this point, and think his second half of the season alone deserves it. Since the game against Chelsea in January, he's been as good as I've ever seen him. He's MOTM in about 80% of games since, with a goal contribution every 76 minutes in all comps. Probably even better if you include just the PL.
Weird comparison though when Salah literally broke the goalscoring record. KDB was never head and shoulders the best player because there was one other player who literally maintained an all-time goalscoring pace for 38 games.
Yeah but Salah scored more goals that season than any other player in the PL era, ever? So wouldn’t exactly say he didn’t deserve it that year.
You’ve just described Salah’s first half of the season where he had a G/A every 72 mins in the league from a quick check.
In his second half of the season, being “off form”, he has a G/A every 95 mins (which is better than KDBs season average of every 96 mins).
The Chelsea game you mention was conveniently when Salah went away to AFCON. Up to that point, KDB had a G/A every 154 mins.
So in KDB’s most inform period he’s not as lethal as Salah was and Salah’s “off form” period is much better than KDB’ was.
From a pretty unbiased point of view. I don’t think it’s actually that close.
Isn’t that the same season where he himself literally said he was voting for Salah?
Love him so much
Que lindo se siente confiar en tu defensa, hace demasiado no pasaba
He is so fucking good
Kulusevski stats have been ridiculous. Gets overshadowed because of Son and Kane. Diaz has not been as impactful as him if they’re only talking about the PL. Once in you bring in the other comps then it’s a toss up.
Also Bruno G deserves a serious shout.
Not just the stats
Every bit as impressive as Diaz since January window. He’s a massive talent with great decision making…. Both really fun players
Liverpool have just been better
Why did you copy the post above you instead of just responding to it?
Whooopppppsss. Deleted it.
1. Can see why they went with their options for best player. I personally think Salah gets my vote.
2. Young player I understand why they went with Rice and under current criteria I agree. I just disagree with the criteria. I think there should be a cut off point on appearances because Rice and other honourable mentions have so much experience already.
3. Again can see why they went with both options. Romero has grown into the Prem this season and Diaz took off like a man on fire into an already strong Liverpool team. But my vote would be Kulusevski. He completed spurs attack into one of the strongest front 3s in the league.
4. Coach can really have no debate, but want to give special mention to Howe. He was very close to being my choice and if he can keep this pace for next season should be a shoe in for the award next year imo.
5. Kova vs Liverpool. Goal grows on you every time you watch it back. A shot where you can have thousands of attempts and still not hit it, from the guy who doesn't score goals
The Kovacic goal is just unreal I don't think it gets talked about enough.
I'm a Liverpool fan and watching it I just remember thinking... what the fuck. I've never seen a volley like it. Unreal technique.
The Salah goal was special as well though, I think either are deserving
It's a weird goal, part of what makes it so impressive is how awkward the technique is. For me, this also makes it not the most aesthetically pleasing.
I'd say the salah one was better just because it took ridiculous skill to dance through the city defence.
Kovacic was more like a lucky hit.
Of course a Liverpool fan would say that
Nah that's real lazy analysis. There are volleys from outside the box and then there's what Kovacic did.
What the replay from behind him and just focus on the footwork. It's crazy. He's moving backwards and as soon as the ball comes near him he somehow manages to shuffle and hop into a volley. It's outrageous technique.
As is Salah dancing past two or three City players.
Don't get me wrong it was fantastic skill as well. But he could hit that 1000 times again and get no where near the goal.
Salah goal for me. The kovacic goal is great but there’s also an element of luck in there. With Salah it’s a prolonged period of skill to dribble past cancelo, Bernardo, and Laporte and to then stick it in the back of the net, rather than just one quality strike
Howe has done a great job, but at the same time man spent 90 million in about 3 weeks. Brentford have spent less then that in our entire 124 year history and we're still probably going to finish above Newcastle, yet no shouts anywhere for Thomas Frank in our debut season in the prem. If we beat Leeds, I'm pretty sure that's the highest placed finish for a new club in the prem.
Don't forget that Ipswich once broke the top five as a newly promoted team. I think Forest might even have come third back in the 90s.
I know that. I'm talking about like the literal first time in the prem. Ipswich and Forest were there in the first season and are miles bigger then us even today.
To be fair though, Howe took a team that wasn't going to win a raffle and actually turned them into a real pain in the ass for every team in the league. The 90m he spent the majority was for Wood and Trippier, Wood who is bang average and Trippier who has been injured for the majority of the end of the season.
What shows Howe's impact is the first win of the season was in December and the winning streak he started going on which kept us up started in December as well. He signed the players to fill in spots that needed it but we already would have been safe probably.
25 Million on Chris Wood fucking hell.
I'm like 90% sure I've read this before
Actually agree with Gary on Son, he's been world class this season
He hasn’t even been playing at his 100% for a good part of the season. Imagine the ceiling
[Kovacic goal] (https://youtu.be/8Y4IXH-thHU) 1:34
[Salah Goal] (https://youtu.be/ZnFnQT0g5j0) 2:03
They both look the same in the country I am in tbh...
Sorry to Romero but it's got to be Kulusevski.
His 8 assists don't even include the 2 penalties he won or the own goal he assisted.
Huge impact, great attitude, incredibly skillful, he's taken our fanbase by storm for a reason.
Romero would definitely be among the favorites (but not nailed on to win it) but Kulus performances since he came in just outshine Romero and any other signings, including Diaz and Ronaldo (who many don't mention, but would have a claim on statistics alone)
I think Kulusevski has better numbers, but Diaz looks like a more dangerous and impactful player. Hard to say which has been better, really is a coin flip. Diaz has been the best player in two finals and the difference maker in big matches for a team trying to challenge for the league.
I know goal keepers don't ever get the credit but Alisson not getting nominated for POTS is really baffling. For me this season it seems like he has bailed Liverpool out once or twice almost every game. Alisson, Trent and VVD are the most consistent players for Liverpool and honestly you can make a case for all of them as POTS.
It might be because a lot, if not the majority of his brilliant one on one saves end up called offside, so don't "count"
Thomas Frank should be manager of the season imo. (not biast)
Wow recency bias is unreal. Salah had terrific season till January and has been hit or miss in the last 6 games and suddenly he is out of contention? 22 goals and 13 assists ffs
i think he's still player of the year, but he's been hit or miss for way longer than 6 games tbf.
He's been off the boil ever since AFCON (relative to his own standards, he's obviously still been very good)
He has had multiple assists since afcon and has hit woodwork few times too
Kane's 23 and 14 (league high in both) weren't good enough last year. Why would it suddenly be different for Salah?
Well Liverpool are fighting for title and Spurs finished 7th
Surprised not to see Guimarães as new player and Howe as coaching performance.
Best new player Kulusevski
as an Arsenal fan... absolutely. He's been great
How's kdb ahead of salah
Cause salah fell off after an incredible start.
Imo Son has been close.
But people are forgetting how insane Salah was first half of the season.
Son literally scored more non penalties goal than him in a worse team with 2 different managers. How is he not close to Salah who played good until afcon?
Salah leads in goal and assists. He’s the best player in the league. Even with the “dip” he’s getting 2/3 defenders on him at all times
Not to mention - imagine what would happen if fouls on Salah were actually called as pens?
Should be Cucurella best new player
Cucurella played last season no? Or am I going mad?
Nope. Signed this season
Bowen gotta be in contention
See no Joelinton, lists are invalid
Best matches: Liverpool 9 - 0 Man United.
Son scored more non penalties goals than him in a worse team with 2 different managers. It's not mind boggling lol.
And Son would have more goals than Salah if he would take the penalties.
Position in the league is never relevant lol.
And you said it's mindboggling that ppl chose other players than Salah while Son literally was on his level. Over the whole season he was more consistent in the worse team and had to play under Nuno where we literally were the team with the least shots on goal.
Also his conversation rate is way better. 25% compared to Salahs 16%. He scored more important goals and scored like 52% of our goals while Salah is 34% of yours.
He also is leading the g/a table vs top4 teams with 6 and got the second best Performance v xG after De Bruyne.
So you're really saying it's mindboggling that some ppl rate him the same this Season? Really dude?
Just witnessed a murder…
Link to the best goals?
I can't deny bias, but as I look around the league, I can't think of a more impactful signing this season and for the future than Romero. Kulusevski is all the rage right now for most Spurs fans, and he's clearly a very good player, but IMO that's some attacker bias, and I think Romero is categorically world class. He is, IMO, the best signing by Spurs since Son. Just an outrageously good defender, and especially considering how young he is.
Rice best young player that's fucking laughable
Agree. He's 23 with 166 games for West Ham over 5 years and 28 England caps. How's that still a young player.
It's really not though. Trent, Foden, and Saka are all in with shouts of being better but laughable would suggest that he's nowhere near, when he's had an absolutely brilliant season and been the best player in a West Ham side that's got 7th or 6th place.
Nobody claimed hes not good. Its laughable because he isn't young.
Under 23s has always been the benchmark for youngsters, he shouldn't be punished for being so good so young lol (same age as Trent btw)
Well that's exactly the point.
Trent is already one of the best player regardless of his age, and his young age is never used for Trent's argument. No Liverpool fan will ever say Trent should win young player of the year because he's already an established player at this point.
Young Player of the year should be U21 at most.
For me it just seems like he has been around for awhile. I feel like young player should be teens or 20/21 or younger. Same would apply to foden/TAA.
I don't see an argument for Saka but I do for Trent (who should probably win it) and Foden.
Saka is class why don’t you see an argument? I’d have him above Foden.
Mason Mount is in this category technically and has better G+A. Connor Gallagher is a midfielder in a much worse team and isn’t far behind him. Foden has way less minutes and games and has 2 less goals and one less assist.
I think Saka is a good player but I don’t think he’s anywhere close to the best u-23 player.
It's not at all, watch games of football.
Who have you got ahead of him?
Yeah he’s obviously class, probably a bit of voter fatigue as he’s been brilliant for a while. This felt like a step up from Rice this season to me
Trent or Foden.
Rice has been better than Foden this season.
Rice has been way better than Foden this season.
I refuse to give it to Trent because it feels like he's been around for about a decade at this point so Rice is the obvious choice with Foden second
Mate so has Rice. Rice has been playing as long as Trent.
Rice has only 15 less professional appearances than Trent. They’ve both been first team players for the same amount of time.
Tell me you don't watch West Ham without telling me you don't watch West Ham
Yeah everyone saying it’s laughable probably haven’t watched West Han other than 2/38 games.
Rice for best young player is a joke. He’s hardly a young player. That award really should be going to Gallagher. I’d sooner give it to Ben Johnson than to Rice.
Also, those are two very obvious calls for goal of the season but I think there have been better. Almiron a couple weeks ago, Sargent’s scorpion kick, Guimaraes va Southampton, Rudiger vs Brentford. I feel like there are plenty goals of high enough quality to compete with those.
Gallagher has had about 3 good games since Xmas
He wouldn’t be the only player on the list who has had a quiet half season and had the other half be sensational. His first half of the season was stunning.
Diaz over Kulusevski is a bit of a joke. Literally only on there because he plays for Liverpool
or, you know, because he‘s been a vital part of a team that still has a chance to overtake city.
but i do agree that kulusevski has been an insanely good signing for you!
I'm not saying he hasn't been impressive, he's definitely top 5 new signings, but he's not been as good or as important to his team as Dejan
you haven‘t been paying too much attention to liverpool, then, because diaz made the prem and cl run happen. he‘s been the most in form attacker in our team since joining.
Completely disagree, Liverpool wouldn’t be where they are now in all competitions without Diaz. I know you can’t factor in other comps, but his rotation has had a huge impact on the team and he’s been absolutely phenomenal even just in the prem. You can argue that Kulu deserves it but you can’t say Diaz is only there because of Liverpool
But he's not been as good as Kulusevski in the Prem? And he's nowhere near as important to his team as Dejan has been for us. There's not a big difference between him and Jota for example, but Kulusevski has transformed our front 3
I mean it's just a daft skysports thing but it probably should be something like eligibility for u21s or first season in the league or something.
It's not a shock to anyone thay Declan Rice is a good player because we've watched him be a good player for West Ham for 5 years.
Me reading this list -- "Best goal, yeah okay, Carra's picked Salah, but which goal...oh, right, City. Holy shit, I remember that, but it's been so long ago, was that this season?"
It’s getting ridiculous how often Bernardo Silva keeps getting overlooked for these individual awards. I think the final winner is quite subjective for everyone but him not even being in the conversation for POTS seems almost unfair.
How can he be PL player of the season when you'd say he isn't the best player in his team. That's why.
Most man city players get overlooked in these kinds of things because they are more of a unit than a collection of individuals. De Bruyne stands out because he spins the wheels of the machine.
Son has dragged spurs to fourth so his contribution is more notable.
Gary knows ball.
how can klopp be manager of the season you numbskulls
only one numbskull here mate
How can't he?
second in the league? this should be league only, why would they take other competitions into account
How old can you be to be still considered a young player
Romero over Kulu and Diaz? I'm not buying it, Jamie.
Having anyone other than Salah as poty is ridiculous recency bias and nothing will change my mind about that.
If the award was "player of the first half of the season" then you might have a point
as opposed to De Bruyne where the award becomes "player of the second half of the season"
De Bruyne wasn't even Citys best player the first half of the season ffs
for once I agree with Gary Neville that the consistently best player this season has been Son because he didn't a poor first half or poor second half.
he's just had good of both
I don't agree with KDB being picked either lol
No instead it's "player of the second half of the season"
Salah can't win POTY on half a season.
Then neither can KDB or Son. Alisson has been Liverpool’s best player imo, not sure about the league overall tbh.
Why are everybody so convinced that Son has only been good the last few months?
He wasn’t bad, just not nearly the best player in the league.
Salah’s slump has been blown out of proportions as if he’s been dropping 3/10 performances every week. 10 G/A in 10 starts is his bad part of the season.
Tottenham got 9 goals total under Nuno (in 10 games). Son scored 5 of them. Not only is 5 goals in 10 games pretty good in and of itself, but in a team as shit as that?
[half a season](https://i.imgur.com/y5vlH6e.png)
Now do Salah
Salah was by far the best in the first half, KDB has been by far the best in the second half.