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I still think Uli Hoeneß is an absolute idiot, but I have to admire his dedication to trashtalk absolutely anyone and anything as long as it helps diverting attention from Bayern's own issues. He's been doing that for literal decades and it has always worked out to some extent.
at Bayern you aren't anyone, if you aren't a villain embracing it.
> but I have to admire his dedication to trashtalk absolutely anyone and anything as long as it helps diverting attention from Bayern's own issues. He's been doing that for literal decades and it has always worked out to some extent.
Yeah, he has quite the talent to steer the discourse into his preferred direction.
The only two times that come to mind where Hoeneß was unable to steer the discourse were the Daum affair and his own tax evasion scandal.
> were the Daum affair
I mean, wasn't he? The whole affair kicked off because Hoeneß was snitching on a man doing a bit of coke recreationally. Uli ruined the mans career over something a lot of his colleagues at Bayern probably did, too.
The discourse turned against Hoeneß very quickly. He was the most hated man in the country at that point. His family was threatened, he himself needed bodyguards and old friends turned away from him. His attempts to calm the discourse and steer it failed. The public turned from hating on Daum after stuff came out about his real estate projects on Mallorca and other things to hating on Hoeneß for supposedly smearing an innocent out of spite, which surely wasn't the thing he intended.
Hoeneß faltered, he and Daum had already agreed to a peace meeting with Reinhard Rauball as the mediator, during which Hoeneß would publicly apologize to Daum and at the same time, Daum would sign his final contract with the DFB to become the future Bundestrainer. This was already on the way and a date was set, and Hoeneß had also already agreed to donate money to a charity.
But then Daum got himself screwed over by the public drug test and Hoeneß somehow came out of the situation on top. But he was unable to steer the discourse and was very close to admit defeat in this case.
He would be the perfect /r/soccer shitposter no questions asked. I feel like he is kind of misunderstood by newer generations that dont know about how german football used to be. Trash talking used to be welcome - even the FC Hollywood was beneficial for the brand and well reported in media.
Now its almost the reverse: because there are no charismatic figures left like Lemke, Daum, Hoeneß, Lorant, Calmund, Matthäus, Effenberg, Basler and others media invents a lot of the drama where there is none and people get insane with their speculation and criticism about things they have absolutely no idea how they actually work.
It’s easy to talk shit from first place so I don’t think he should be championed too much
Mate if you actually knew what Hoeness has done you’d know he is half the reason the club is still in first place. I mean, he was appointed general manager at like 27…
Bro Hoeneß talked shit no matter what place Bayern was on - he used to talk shit exactly when the team wasnt performing. Shit like this is lost of course to younger people who didnt experience 90s and early 00s Bundesliga.
Dude he made Bayern to what they are today.
He can talk shit all day.
You say that like *being* first place is easy too.
You gotta respect this man's ability to continously rustle r/soccer's jimmies even at his old age.
A habitual Jimmy rustler
I live for his and Rummenigge's quotes
They just buy young players to develop them and sell them double the price, they are the Ajax of Germany except Ajax are winning trophies.
Because Ajax are also the financial giant in their league aswell.
So no, not really compareable in terms of hierarchy.
Not to mention that Ajax also churns out a lot of talent on their own, that helps in the financial part. Players like Mazraoui, Timber and Gravenberch are just the latest in the long list.
Why are financially restricted? You have had multiple players exiting for more than 50mn € in the past few years. Has all that money been spent? If so, where?
Edit: Not trolling, serious question for a fan owned club
A LOT of our profits have gone into long-term growth. SUch as improved and more competitive wagebill, paying of debts to become debt-free, reinvesting in new players and so forth.
We've also been unfortunate in that quite a few of the players we invested in, didnt pan out the way we wanted too.
But a ton have been invested in the club to be more competitive, and done so well. THe issue is just that Bayern has done so aswell, at 3x or more the magnitude.
We are in a pandemic every non billionaire/state backed football club in the world is financially restricted.
That's true yeah but it feels like you guys never buy world class players that can help you challenge for the title, its always young talents who leave after a few good seasons for a European giant.
We cant buy world class players because they cost 60m+. Our record spending is STILL just 35m. Which is insane for our performance level and modern prices.
As for the idea that we only buy young talents, thats not true at all. Its just that those gets the most media attention and have succeded very well.
We spent hundreds of millions on 23+ players that were hyped before corona in Hazard, Brandt, Schulz, Hummels, Can, Schurrle and so forth. We've "just" had a lot of them not perform to the level we hoped. But established world class players are not players that dortmund can afford unless its a german very open to staying in germany, and who isnt going to the much more attractive Bayern. For example Sule.
Expecting us to buy world class players is just unrealistic.
Well yeah, Ajax is easily the richest club in their league. Ajax is the Bayern of the Netherlands.
Won a trophy last season
How do you explain Schurrle, Gotze, Kagawa returning, Hummels, Reus.
I mean, they're good signings. Does anyone expect Dortmund to win the title next season? Well, no, but we'll see in the 23/24 league season.
Like the last 10 years
Like Ferrari ^hopefully ^this ^is ^the ^year
Lol yeah we will see in the 23/24 season.
Even if krwa leaves bayern? I think if he does they have a very little chance
I don't see Bayern letting Lewa go, instead he'll just walk when his contract is up.
Yeah that's what I think too. But you never know.
And I just read what I typed.
Even if a club offers 60-70m, I think having Lewa for one more season and having more opportunities to find a replacement is more valuable.
Yeah, krwa, lol
They could sign the cream of the crop from Man City, Liverpool and Real Madrid, as long as Rose is in charge I'm not overly concerned.
The fella needs to learn how to coach a solid enough defensive setup and keep his players fit...
I feel like this has been said about every single Dortmund manager. Has there been a manager under who Dortmund has had a tight defense?
I mean, Favre was okay in that regard. But even still, his style doesn't translate towards title contention a la David Moyes. Plus, in hindsight, it seems that we've overrated a chunk of their signings that haven't been breakout successes.
But it seems like a lot of these young German coaches need to refine their defensive schemes in general.
> But it seems like a lot of these young German coaches need to refine their defensive schemes in general.
Any recent Mainz product? Asking for future ;)
I mean Svensson is doing an amazing job and actually very solid defensively.
Yes, his name is Klopp.
To be fair, they were closer to flirting with relegation than the title his last year.
Beyond me how you can blame Rose for not being able to manage a defensive setup when he literally had no defense the whole season.
Fucking Emre can has played LB, LCB, RCB and RB multiple times across the whole season. He also had NO proper LB or RB for large parts of the season. OR an inform 6.
Our horrendous defensive record has very little do to with Roses defensive ability. And its obvious.
And it was constant rotation of injuries on 2-6 defensive players who rarely were in training too. Hard to do shit
Sounds a lot like us lol
Naglesmann's not perfect, but still better atm.
However, he'll also need to buck up for next season as well, especially in the CL.
I'm very unconvinced by him unlike the majority of Bayern fans. Our quality went downhill when we starting moving away from Flick's tactics and onto his. Don't think he's ready for Bayern yet from our performance in 2022. Feels like watching us under Kovac again
It would be down hill after Flick no matter who you got.
The thing is, he's very much still developing as a coach.
But more importantly, the recruitment from you guys hasn't been as good as it should be, so he may have to coach some minor miracles next season if he doesn't have his ideal transfer window.
I very much think your midfield depth is lightweight, even despite signing Sabitzer, Roca, etc., although, you'd hope one of them steps up next season.
Also, you seem pretty lightweight in terms of CBs, which won't help. Hopefully, Upamecano steps up, but I wonder if it'll take a while yet for him to adapt? There's also the case that you might've bought the wrong Red Bull CB judging by the way Konate is doing at Liverpool so far. Other than Hernandez, I'd have questions on all the other options tbh, since they're either young (Upamecano and Nianzou), or slightly below what's required, especially in Europe.
That's true, but if you're a team like Bayern you shouldn't settle with a developing coach. I wish he went somewhere else for a few more years and then come to us.
Yeah, I think Upamecano will come good soon enough. He's had some games where he's been brilliant, hopefully with time he gets good. In the meantime I'm hoping we get some good reinforcements this summer, including some midfield depth as you mentioned. I still have faith for next season and winning the treble despite all the challenges we're facing right now (Lewy and possibly Gnabry not resigning, conflict between Brazzo and Nagelsman, etc)
Bayern's form this season is almost exactly the same as the last, and that's with an overral worse squad.
I'd disagree personally. We got a lot of our wins from the first half of the season, where Flick's tactics were still there. Our style of play has regressed so much, I've watched almost every game of ours since 2005 and this is the worst we've been playing in a while (minus Kovac). We went from getting eliminated against PSG on away goals with key players missing to losing pathetically against Villarreal and losing 5-0 against Gladbach. Our league games even before securing the title has been poor and uninspiring starting from after the winter break, minus a few exceptions. We were so much better last season imo
The regress in form also aligns with Kimmich and especially Davies' injuries/sicknesses.
>We went from getting eliminated against PSG on away goals with key players missing to losing pathetically against Villarreal and losing 5-0 against Gladbach
It's not like last season was perfect either, as Bayern's loss against Heidenheim in the cup last season is even more embarrassing than those examples. Nagelsmann inherited a worse squad, and has had vital players like Goretzka, Kimmich, and Davies out for a while, so it's no wonder that Bayern's form got derailed. Bayern's league form is almost an exact copy from last year.
Holstein Kiel*. Getting rinsed by Gladbach 0-5 is no less embarrassing honestly
Yeah sorry, it was Holstein.
I think losing to a second division team is worse even if it was an penalties. Gladbach won primarily because Upamecano had the worst game he would ever have while Kiel somehow managed to expose every weakness there was in Flick's highline.
Just because we went out at QF in CL in both seasons doesn’t mean the forms are the same. We bombarded PSG in the 1st leg last season but got bombarded by Villarreal in the 1st leg this season
Rose managed to comfortably come second with record breaking injuries and an unbalanced squad to start with.
If anything this season has shown that he is better (in the league) than people would expect.
Rose has very little to do with our issues this season tbh. But next season will be one where he has to show some of the qualities he couldnt due to squad and injury issues since they'll hopefully be sorted to a noticeable extent.
The gang gets injured (like every season)
Not like every season. This season is far out of the ordinary.
Just at the half season mark this season had already eclipsed most others in total injury time and was like 20% below the previous Dortmund record of the past 10 seasons.
*The gang finishes second behind Dortmund.*
OK behind Werder then
don't think bayern will be last
I could subscribe to this tbh
No lies were told
I'll said it before and I'll say it again as some people don't understand how dominant Bayern's position is:
>The narrative that other Bundesliga clubs are responsible for Bayern's dominance is like claiming that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer because of poor people's laziness or incompetence.
>Bayern has not only won the Bundesliga 10 times, but all but one season belong to the top 10 record scores in all of Bundesliga history. From 1964 to 2010, no Bundesliga team has ever finished the season above 80 points (years before 1994 converted to current point system). Since then, Bayern did it six times and twice over 90 points. And despite having a shaky season this year, they almost made it seven times.
>The first year Klopp became champion with us, Bayern became third place with 65 points (!). Bayern's point average from 00-10 was 67.4 points, now it's 82.9. Dortmund has finished above 75 points two times in the past decade and that result would have guaranteed you to become champions before 2010.
>So the real situation is that Bayern became more consistent and not the other way around, as the rest of the league is still very competitive apart from Bayern and Fürth. And the reason for this is the power of being the biggest club, which is able to attract the best players, keep your best players, get the biggest sponsorships and in Germany you also gets the biggest share of TV revenue. And that compounded in the last decade by so much that beating Bayern's team has become virtually impossible. Dortmund is closer to Fürth financially than to Bayern.
>The answer to create a better competition is not getting rid of 50+1. If anything, 50+1 will only create an 'arms race' to the top that will benefit the already bigger clubs. Bochum isn't going to get Apple as a sponsor and Bielefeld won't get millions from Tesla. What we need is a fairer distribution of TV money or a salary cap. That won't undo decades of exponential gains for Bayern, but at least will keep Bayern from exponentially getting better. And in that regard, the Premier League is actually a model to follow, which has a much more equal TV moneydistribution than the Bundesliga.
>But narratives like "it's the other clubs' problem" are always told by Uli Hoeneß and Bayern executives keep exactly that from happening.
rent free like his prison cell
well he was asked about it
But at least you're not one of those silly buggers that didn't catch the irony of calling him out for always saying the same shit while talking about his prison stint in the next sentence like it's an argument. Just like every time Hoeneß is mentioned after he went to prison.
Also your captain drove for ~~7~~ 3 years without ever taking the needed test, but with a fake dutch license, and should've absolutely went to jail. And I'd still listen to him when he speaks on football because that fact doesn't make him any less knowledgeable.
Odd to ask this pensioner about Dortmund's signings when he's not involved with Bayern anymore
>when he's not involved with Bayern anymore
~~chairman of the supervisory board (Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender)~~
Edit: my bad, just a member of the supervisory board. point still stands
Is that an actual word or just a meme
That's how German works. We just connect the words to a long word. Those are called compound nouns.
*Chicken breast fillet* becomes *Chickenbreastfillet*. *Chairman of the supervisory board* becomes *Supervisoryboardchairman*. It looks intimidating first, but once you actually understand how compound nouns work, they'll become super easy to pull apart. You only need to recognize the part-nouns, from there your brain already fills in the blank spaces for you.
just German being German
Chairman of the supervisory board is longer than Aufrichtsratvorsitzender.
Isn't that Stoiber? Hoeness is just Honorary President now right?
Stoiber is just member of supervisory board. looked it up again. so is Hoeneß. he is also honorary president.
Hainer is the chairman. it goes hand in hand with the presidency it seems. But I remembered Hoeneß keeping his position at the sup. board when he stepped down as president. but still stepped down from the chairmanship, too I guess
Apologies for my mistake
Best stepping stone club in the world
Yeah, I am more certain about Dortmund finishing behind Bayern next year, than I am of Crystal Palace finishing behind us next season.
Rent free in his head!
Not saying we are winning the league next, but one thing is for sure when Lewy is gone, you aint winning it either!
Cant replace full 90mins over 34 mathcdays striker, that shoots with both feet, amazing in aerial duels, good header, good with back to the goal, always fit, never injured dude that bangs in 30+ goals every single season since almost a decade
Agreed, next year is Freiburg's year.
talking about criminal Uli Hoeneß? The tax cheat? whadda we doin hair
For bayern, yeah.
If only this old ass crook paid his taxes like he runs his mouth…
This is gonna backfire so badly in a year or so... so so badly...
I hope so
that doesnt make any sense, why would hoeneß be salty?
Its great that we get that much attention lom
That very hurts the marketability of the league!
you mean Dortmund finishing second, or Hoeness trashtalking them?
He is effectively saying that Dortmund will never catch them (by extension any other team) --- meaning there is no "Title Race" to sell, which is a key attraction that Broadcasters look for. (Broadcasters obviously look for Key battles - Title Race, Race for UCL/Europa spots, Relegation battle and other Rivalry/Derby matchups.)
While it's fairly obvious and true because of the difference in financial capability of Bayern vs rest of the league but still a big name like him saying such things is just bad for the leagues marketability.
The lac of competetiveness has been an issue for a while, but imo Hoeness playing a villain is definitely one of the least things that hurt the marketability. His quotes get tons of people riled up and invested into the anticipation of seing Bayern fail.
Beisdes that, Hoeness claiming Dortmund finishes 2nd doesn't make it any more or any less likely than it was before. He isn't some voodoo doctor with magic curses that must come true. He is just trashtalking, as he always did. No broadcaster has second guesses, when some dude says that his opponent will lose. In Martial Arts this is a common tactic to play up a hostile narrative, which increases the stakes and raises public interest.
Said hoenes who couldnt beat dortmund and decided to steal goetze and lewandowski. Braindead bitch.
??? What do you mean "Steal"? Are clubs no longer allowed to sign players? Lewandowski didn't even have a club anymore
But we did beat them? We literally won the treble the season before we "stole" them you clown lmfao
you had not yet won the treble before you "stole" Gotze
?? Bayern won the treble in 2012-13. Götze came in 2013-14
???????the signing was completed before they won the treble
And when did he exactly join? Before the treble?
mate, the signing was made 3-4 weeks after Bayern had mathematically won the Championship. They won like 25 points ahead in the league.
You are the clown bozo. If Bayern didnt steal dortmunds players they wouldnt win 10 titles in a row. Hoenes is arrogant piece of shit.
You are the clown bozo. If PL clubs didn’t raid non-Bayern BL players like KDB, Auba, Gundogan, Werner, Havertz and many more others Bayern wouldn’t win 10 titles in a row.
I guess Bayern fans are the dumbest people on reddit lmao
Both came on a free u idiot lmao
Yeah because of Bayern u idiot lmao
Because they could choose where they want to go, u idiot lmao
No u idiot lmao
Didn't realise clubs could steal players