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OliHack

Araujo's dueling is genuinely insane to me. Despite being tall he reacts so quick with his feet, very strong too. Shame we couldn't see much of Vini vs him last match, due to different circumstances.


13NachoVidal

Araujo > Militao


Ok-Zombie4481

If you have to tackle then you have already lost the battle - Maldini


damola44

lol have u seen this Barca defense. Him having to tackle is due to everyone around him not doing their job


raysofdavies

Me, standing in the box as an attacker breezes past my statuesque form: Paulo says tackling is wrong


Taplinnn

😂😂😂


TheGeniusArvind

Araujo and Garcia let's gooo. Hope we can see both of them playing well together this season.


[deleted]

Holy fuck Eric and Araujo


selgath

We just need to develop the technology to merge them into one player and we’ll be set for a decade


lightlord

Merge and clone


[deleted]

[удалено]


Equationist

Too many merge conflicts


Dumbass1171

Prime Pique was basically the combination of both ngl


SulfoCyaNate

You are thinking of r/toprightmessi


occasionally_dumb

Eric’s transformation since dec is astounding. Hasn’t put a foot wrong in any of the matches. When he got two red cards very early in his barça career, I really thought it was all over for him here.


Aspect3221

You’ll still have people who doesn’t watch him at Barca talk shit about him over here.


Rojiblanc040

Even Barsa fans talked poorly about him, don't get it twisted. But I guess that lines up what you said to be fair.


velsor

I've said this before, but it's insane how many people completely wrote him off because he wasn't perfect playing in an off-form City team when he was 18 years old.


[deleted]

I agree. Our setup is now quite similar to the NT where he also shines. I don't want to jump the gun, but maybe him and Araujo as our starting CB duo could be good enough, especially if we get solid fullbacks. Excited to see how he develops!


Anindya_Ghost

These numbers show why Eric is so important for the NT. He is easily one of the best defenders in the world at progressing the ball and breaking out of the press. No doubt Lucho loves him. Against Sevilla, one of the best defenses in the league, he was basically cutting them apart with one single pass through multiple lines of pressure.


LonelyTimeTraveller

Our style under Xavi suits him perfectly, just like Spain under Enrique. I think people were far too hard on him in the beginning. Even his worst game (against Athletic Club) can’t be blamed completely on him—he found out just before the game that his grandfather had passed away, so it’s not at all surprising that he wasn’t in the right mindset to play, especially against a quick, high-pressing attack like Bilbao’s. But there’s definitely a noticeable improvement over the last two months or so. I think he and Araujo could be a very complimentary pairing in the future and I hope to see them partnered together more once Eric returns from injury.


myreal_nameis

It's not even been 2 months


MarcusBrutus2000

Eric has also been brilliant defensively since the Kiev game.


TheMexicanJuan

Eric’s passing is underrated. He often makes dagger passes through the entire midfield and defense but we have no one to convert them and so you don’t see any of those in the stats


Anindya_Ghost

Reminds of a certain duo from the 2010s.


_Narvi_

Mascherano and Puyol?


grinch_lux

Badiashile is really impressive


JacKfreakingSparroW

Someone teach araujo and Eric to do man-beast mimicry jutsu. Bring kiba.


Acrobatic-Client-532

Surprised to see De Ligt isn't particularly progressive with his passing.


Thundereaterr

His passing is decent but nothing exceptional, atleast at Juve. Has got other qualities


Cules2003

Araujo is a monster


luciluci00

Just another sad reminder of how good Ibanez could be if he didn't fuck shit up every 2 matches


feddi7

Sometimes he just forgets where he is and what he’s doing. It’s a shame because he very good when he’s concentrated


lssie_hyoudou

Where is he. Can't find him Edit: nvm


[deleted]

Konate is going to be really good


raysofdavies

Virgil and Joel to show him progressive ball playing with his defensive fundamental skills? Fucking baller in the making.


Simple-Land612

Eric Garcia is criminally underrated by Barça fans, his ability to distribute the ball from the back is a talent few cbs in the world possess.. what i admire about him is how he steps up to striker’s to destabilize them when they are receiving the ball


Illustrious_Stay_728

Man araujo is the MAN of the present and future for this Barcelona team. Give him whatever money he wants, give him everything. He’s truly spexial


Jackrrr10000

Gvardiol only 19 and Eric Garcia 21. Amazing stats for youngsters


Akash3642

And one of them was free


Chrey2206

Tbf Gvardiol has played 5 matches at LB this season. Of course this boosts his stats


GoldEquivalent592

Isn’t gvardiol playing a lot of this season as a fullback though? Not sure if that skews his stats or not


YoullNeverMemeAlone

Wouldn't say amazing, while both are great on the ball, defensively according to these stats they are pretty average.


Jackrrr10000

Gvardiol plays in 352 so he has freedom to not defend that much, for Croatia when he plays in a 4321 he has been really good when he played as a CB, Garcia on the other hand when paired with Araujo could do so much but unfortunately Pique is still there.


riquelme_fan

It's usually the one I'm looking for most that isn't marked on these. Hiroki Ito - should be the one just above Ampadu looking at his stats. I like his left footed passing, really wraps short passes around opposition players but also capable of some good long range passes. Defensively he seems pretty similar to Tomiyasu, tall but wiry so he tries to compensate for not being the strongest by being aggressive and anticipating situations quickly. Works well so far as part of a back three but needs to try and gradually add more weight as currently I could see him struggling against a more traditional number 9 if used in a pair.


adrian_rainy_day

Upa 💀


[deleted]

Upamecano is highly sus. Makes several mistakes 1 on 1 and is a downgrade from last season's Boateng.


ItsJustAsinine

He's much younger and physically superior, he'll become an important piece for us.


Yupadej

I mean Davinson Sanchez is great physically as well


maremmacharly

Sadly the most important thing about being a CB is positioning and concentration which is so hard to measure in stats


reeve19

Exactly. It's the intangibles which make a defender so good.


maremmacharly

Yeah, just wanted to come back on this from the man city - chelsea game the other day, where thiago silva was one-on-one with sterling running at him, but rudiger was backtracking fast coming up on thiago silva's right/sterlings left. Silva slowly backpeddled so that rudiger could catch up, then stepped in to his left, goading sterling to dribble to HIS left and leaving the ball easy to collect for a rudiger sterling never saw coming from behind. If you look at the stats, thiago silva "lost his duel" and "was dribbled past". But if you see the game you would know he was in complete control of that situation and got exactly what he wanted. Defending is such a team game that these type of individual stats can be extremely misleading and analysing situations/staying in control is by far the most important skill (other than base athleticism and footballing ability) for a centreback.


Exzqairi

Feel like Jurrien Timber would be top right if he was included. Dominating the Eredivisie and our CL games in terms of carries and ball progression


Fati25

Do you mean top right quadrant? Or top right of the entire graphic? Because to be top right of the entire graphic he would need to be elite in duels aswell


Exzqairi

He is elite in duels, and the best forward playing CB I’ve ever seen at Ajax. That’s why According to fbref.com Timber would have 12.06 progressive actions per 90, which would rank only slightly behind Barca’s Eric Garcia out of this entire graphic. I can’t find stats for the duels however Edit: according to gioscore, he has 2044 minutes played this season and won a total of 126 duels in that time. That would add up to 5,55 duels won per 90, but the site doesn’t clarify whether the stat includes both ground duels and aerial duels. Can’t find any stats with percentages


GOLDEN-SENSEI

According to Sofascore (don't know how accurate they are), he wins 67% of duels. https://www.sofascore.com/player/jurrien-timber/958959 So he would certainly be one of the most (if the the most) well rounded cb's on this graphic.


Fati25

Yep, would be horizontally in-line with Salisu and vertically in line with Gvardiol (a bit more to the right tho)


RN2FL9

Timber is amazing at carries but Blind surely had even higher progression stats when he was playing CB because of his passing.


Exzqairi

I think you might be simultaneously overrating Blind last season while underestimating how good Timber’s stats have been. I’ll agree they’re very close, but I’m giving the edge to Timber because he’s so young and will still improve. Some of our fans don’t get that it’s absolutely insane for someone of Timber’s age to be so composed and have such good vision and positioning. Blind at Timber’s age was getting booed in the Arena and still needed to develop a lot


RN2FL9

Oh for sure, he's insanely talented especially for his age, but not the best forward playing CB ever at Ajax. Blind is at 15+ in progression from LB this year. And I can't find the data for when he was playing CB still but I remember a graph with just passing for the 20/21 season where Blind was at 19 on just progressive passing.


Exzqairi

During 20/21? Jesus, thought his stats had been on a slight decline


RN2FL9

Yeah, I found the graph. It's pretty crazy, I know its eredivisie but midfielders are on it as well. https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/mijkor/ajaxs_daley_blinds_ballpassing_ability_compared/


Exzqairi

And it’s just passes too, not even carries


professionalmasturba

Well that’s weird. RM flairs told me that militao is the best CB in la liga lol.


marlboroplug

so he isn't because he's not progressive enough? lol logic


professionalmasturba

Well he definitely isn’t the best. Kounde, araujo, alaba are all better than him. Even diego carlos and garcia are playing better than him at the moment.


RauloGonzalez

Yeah okay, you went from speaking some sense to complete nonsense lmao


professionalmasturba

What part of my comment is nonsense? Just point that out to me.


babu0418

People shit on garcia without actually seeing him play, that's probably what he is doing as well.


Rojiblanc040

Even your own fans until the general opinion sways of what to think of players. It's cute. It happens in most big clubs, even with us.


babu0418

Most definitely, after last years classico mingueza was the next puyol over at r/barca and look at him now


MarcusBrutus2000

I was getting downvoted for saying Mingueza isn't a better prospect than Eric García. People don't seem to watch games. There was a reason Koeman had to sub him off at half time on more than one occasion.


DanielSophoran

I’ve always said Mingueza will at most be another Sergi Roberto type squad player. Got downvoted a few times for that aswell.


Jh1niesta

The general opinion of Mingueza last season was that he was an alright backup option for the future, but I don't think anyone with a brain thought he's good enough for to be a starter. He was a reliable option last season. Not sure what happened to him this season.


ignixe

He was also the 3rd choice cb from the B team when Koeman called him up iirc Some people definitely over hyped him, but he was absolutely playing above his level last season. This season he’s looked very suspect as we should have expected, but I don’t think that takes away from his good form last season, even if it will likely never be repeated


Equationist

I was feeling so confused when I saw even Real Madrid fans praising him. He was being very aggressive that game but it was risky and requiring others to cover for him a lot whenever he failed a duel / tackle. Not saying he's terrible - he's sufficient for a depth player but certainly not the second coming of Puyol.


inuyasha99

What? Nobody said that about Mingueza, in fact the majority was seeing him as a valuable squad player like Nacho in Madrid, nothing more.


Enartloc

If you actually watched La Liga you would know him and Kounde have been the best this season. He's very good at progressing the ball like Ramos was, but he's not our ball playing CB, Alaba is, so he rarely uses long passes/runs.


MarcusBrutus2000

I know our defence has not been the best but Araujo deserves to be mentioned among those two. He has really held his own.


Fati25

https://imgur.com/a/42UogV6


Enartloc

Araujo definitively been great, but obviously your team dropping so many points lowers his impact. Players look better when team is winning obviously. Militao also suffered when we had to play improvisation with the defense first third of the season, he was running in all directions to plug holes and we were conceding a lot.


AouarCherki

I hope you're having a laugh. Araujo is decent that's it.


MarcusBrutus2000

His stats seem to suggest otherwise. He also passes the eye test. Sure he has struggled a lil under Xavi but that's mainly because he has been played as a RB.


Fati25

Nah I think anyone who has actually watched over the entire season would know he hasn't been the best CB in La Liga this season. He started the season very poorly, and came into good form from late November to December.


Enartloc

This isn't true, i think you're confusing the defense being shit until Mendy was back and Alaba playing centrally with him being bad. He was solo trying to do everything first few games, we even played shit like Miguel-Nacho-Militao-LV backline.


Fati25

Look at the early games against Alaves, Levante where he himself was making direct errors and costing Real Madrid goals. Maybe his recent form in December made people forget that, but his season didn't start well. He has certainly not been as consistent as Koundé or Araújo this season.


Enartloc

Nope, it was Nacho making mistakes and him trying to plug holes.


DanielSophoran

He literally almost cost you the game a few days ago, twice. He isn’t as good as he was last season. Which isn’t that weird as he’s still young. the consistency will come with time.


Enartloc

He had 2 bad games all season. He was very inconsistent year he came, he's been a beast last 2 seasons.


professionalmasturba

To be the best, you have to be the best in almost every criterion. You can’t just say “*well ball progression isn’t his job, it’s alaba’s*”. He should be good at that if he is playing for a big club otherwise the opposition will man mark the hell out of him. I remember the balon d’or speculation threads when you guys were saying that benz deserves the balon d’or more than lewa cause he’s a more well rounded striker. So which is it then? So militao is the best even though he’s not that very good on the ball and at the same time benz is better than lewa even though lewa scored more goals.


Enartloc

> To be the best, you have to be the best in almost every criterion. You can’t just say “well ball progression isn’t his job, it’s alaba’s”. He should be good at that if he is playing for a big club otherwise the opposition will man mark the hell out of him. HE IS GOOD AT IT, he's just not the chosen CB to take out the ball. For example Benzema is amazing at penalties, but since Cristiano/Ramos took them for us, you wouldn't see Benzema in most penalties scored statistics. > So militao is the best even though he’s not that very good on the ball Where did you determine that from ? >at the same time benz is better than lewa even though lewa scored more goals. You're rambling irrelevant shit, stop drinking so early in the day.


professionalmasturba

Your penalty analogy doesn’t even make sense. Only one person can take a penalty but ball progression can be done by both the CBs in a match. Just because alaba is doing it doesn’t mean militao shouldn’t do it. It’s like ancelloti saying to rodrygo - “*hey rodry don’t you score goals. It’s benz and vini’s responsibility*”. You see how stupid your logic sounds!!


damola44

Yeah ur kinda right tbh. It benefits Madrid to have 2 ball playing CBs. It’s not like ancelotti is saying “Alaba is the only person that can progress the ball” . Alaba is probably doing it more because he’s better than it than militao.


Enartloc

Holy shit you're fucking dense, they both ball progress, but obviously the designated one will get the ball 90% of the time from Courtois. What fucking top team do you know that doesn't have a designated player to play from the back ?


ItsJustAsinine

Even when we had Alaba both him and Boateng had pretty equal forward ball distribution. And now Upamecano and Lucas both have major roles aswell.


Enartloc

Upamecano does it way more, i can dig up some stats if you want.


ItsJustAsinine

According to FBREF: ​ Lucas Hernandez vs Upamecano Passes attempted: 81.74 vs 84.03 Pass completion: 90.7% vs 89.6% Progressive passes: 5.85 vs 5.26 Progressive carries: 6.55 vs 5.43 Dribbles completed: 0.98 vs 0.53 Progresive passes received: 0.59 vs 0.27 ​ Additionally, fbref's algorithm ranks Lucas as second most similar player to Upamecano. If anything, Lucas is the one who does it more, but the difference is subtle.


professionalmasturba

Let it go man. He’s not going to learn. He’s still adamant that a team should not have more than one ball carrying defender. And that one defender should do 90% of the ball progression.


professionalmasturba

> What fucking top team do you know that doesn't have a designated player to play from the back? I mean just look at man city. Laporte, dias, stones are all excellent ball carriers. Chelsea with rudiger and christensen, barça with pique and garcia, bayern with upmecano and hernandez.


Enartloc

All our backline is good at ball carrying, that wasn't the point lmao, you just don't get it. ONE PLAYER is the regular designated one to take the ball out. For City that's Laporte. Like you're either stupid or are trolling me.


professionalmasturba

For city, that’s not just laporte. Stones and dias are equally good. And every top team shouldn’t have to rely on just one ball carrier. That’s basically suicide. The opposition can just cut off all the forward passing lanes from alaba and all he can do after that is either play it back to the goalkeeper or militao or just hoof it away. That’s exactly the kind of teams that struggles massively against high pressing teams.


Enartloc

Ok you're trolling me, blocked.


RauloGonzalez

This is a post about duels and passing. If you're judging players on that, it's on you.


professionalmasturba

How else am I supposed to judge a defender then? Ground duels, aerial duels, how easy or tough it is to dribble past you, how well your passing is, how good you’re at bringing the ball out from the back are all taken care of in his graph.


DanielSophoran

I mean Araujo had that “not dribbled past a single time” stat for a while, i wouldn’t be against including that stat.


SukMyCoquelin

The fact that we sent Perrin to Strasbourg fort almost nothing and bought fucking Balerdi pisses me off


yvesmeier

perrin is only on loan, no? and how has belardi been?


SukMyCoquelin

Loan with 1,5M option to buy ajd Balerdi sucks


yvesmeier

damn, so perrin is most likely gone, no? thx for your response!


SukMyCoquelin

Yeah I dont see Strasbourg sending him back


rhaegonblackfyre123

I sttill dont understand what is our lord doing in Madrid .


dannydevito39

I thought Tapsoba was meant to be amazing? Is he having an off season or is it a case of stats not tell the whole story?


Fati25

He got injured earlier this season and missed quite a lot of games.


RioBeckenbauer

I think he has had injuries, but a poorer season for sure. Could also have to do with the new coach and system. They went from high volume passing under Peter Bosz to what seems to be a more counter attack/open approach.


GeraldJimes_

Can't speak to Tapsoba, but stats rarely tell the story for what a viewer would consider progressive actions with defenders. FBref exclude progressive actions from within the defending 40% of the pitch. This means defenders who are charged with anchoring or teams that typically settle with a deeper line or bait the press will often appear a lot worse than those who push up further, but there's plenty of possibility they still play quality line breaking progressions from those deeper spots.


B_e_l_l_

Shame Fofana has been injured. Got a feeling he'd be right up there in the top right.


Exzqairi

I’m surprised Tapsoba is losing so many duels. Is the hype undeserved?


solgnaleb

duels% has no correlation with it being a good defensive action. you can win a duel and be the reason the other team scored, because you "won" the header, but headed straight to the opponent. you can also "lose" a duel and it was a good defensive action, because you positioned well and drove the opponent away from goal. it's the most useless stat in football.


Fati25

> its the most useless stat in football that is absolute nonsense


solgnaleb

no, it's absolutely true. you can read about it on spielverlagerung. [https://spielverlagerung.de/2016/01/13/zahlenverlagerung-die-hinrunde-der-bundesliga/](https://spielverlagerung.de/2016/01/13/zahlenverlagerung-die-hinrunde-der-bundesliga/) ​ have fun


YoullNeverMemeAlone

Did you read the article you posted? Its statistical analysis is terrible. The way it judges defensive players is just the number of tackles + interceptions per 90. Which is an absolutely terrible way to judge defenders as it's extremely dependent on team playstyle. According to it no defender from either Bayern or Dortmund are in the top 10 in the bundesliga. It also basically doesn't discuss at all how duel percentage is bad bar a throwaway line so I dont understand how it's a rebuttal of duel percentage.


solgnaleb

You might want to tell Rene Maric how bad it is.


SirBarkington

I know it's a different league but Ampadu doing better than Trevoh in duels is surprising to me. he never seemed a physical CB


tnarref

I wonder where Lukeba would be on this with enough minutes played because he's pretty damn good.