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[TELEGRAPH] Sir Alex Ferguson's dramatic Cristiano Ronaldo intervention shows how Arsene Wenger could help Arsenal

[TELEGRAPH] Sir Alex Ferguson's dramatic Cristiano Ronaldo intervention shows how Arsene Wenger could help Arsenal

The_Meaty_Boosh

Could. Maybe wenger wants to chill tho, bit unfair to lump any responsibility on him when he no longer works with the club in any capacity.


LambemuNang

Especially when he got kicked out of the club


oneechanisgood

Yeah the fucking audacity of the people who kicked him out and spat on his legacy lmao. That's what I keep telling people who wanted Fergie back during those Moyes/van Gaal years.


Medevial-Marvel

I think Wenger needed to go when he was sacked ..it’s just that they haven’t followed that decision up with getting a decent manager and backing him ..The revisionism around Wenger just because Arsenal are struggling is astonishing


DrSleeper

It could be argued that their failures post Wenger prove that he wasn’t their problem at all. He failed to secure a CL finish once in his entire career. And that’s with selling his stars all the time, Nasri, Fabregas, Henry, Viera. Their financial strength was more akin to a team like Leicester now than it was to Man Utd and Chelsea and later City. I’m not just talking spending but also the salary. The view change is more about people understanding who Arsenal really are at this point and in Wengers latter half coaching them.


Chemical_Robot

I don’t know if I agree. Wenger for me is an elite manager. They’re almost impossible to replace. If I was an Arsenal fan I’d have wanted to keep him for as long as he was willing to stay. Arsenal aren’t as big a club as their fans like to think they are. They were as privileged to have Wenger as we were to have Fergie.


[deleted]

Especially how he was treated in the end. He needed to go but the toxicity that was shown towards him was unacceptable


thick_as_mince

In hindsight, did he really need to go? They have done worse every year since and spent more money than he ever did?


gary_mcpirate

at the time most non arsenal fans were saying kicking him out is a terrible idea


Catsoverall

In hindsight.


zimonw

Hindisght is a wonderful thing . Arsenal was in a "bad"spot, enough for the board to make a dacision. I'd say they made a "good" decision in the means that they believed in it, the following just didnt work out, but who knows if the outcome would've been different with Arsene or not. I cant imagine it was easy sacking Arsene. You can never never know if decisions you make are right, you can only look at the data to narrow down the amount of different actions for the best outcome. They went with sacking Arsene, and the rest is history.


Seanige

He was there for 20+ years, most of which were successful. That's a lot of data that points to the contrary.


zimonw

I'm 100% aware of that, and Arsene together with Arsenal was treated poorly, no doubt about it. I'm just talking about the proccess in which it was executed. We can hate on big corps and money-greedy ownerships all we want. But in the end, they want to make money (and the most efficient way to make money, is by being a topflight club I would assume atleaast) and they made the decision, at the moment, that the best course of action was to sack Arsene. I'm not talking about it being the right decision, nor the wrong one, just stating the fact that they obviously thought a change of managers was the right thing to do considering the circumstances. I just said it couldn't have been an eaasy decision, just because it's easy for alot of people to see what's right and wrong in *hindsight*.


[deleted]

They were declining even with with him. They finished 5th and 6th. The finished 5th with Emery and then it went downhill


safeezat

They weren't really declining. More like stagnant at being Top 4. That is why he got kicked out. Obviously now it's clear that the reason he got Top 4 was that he was overachieving with the squad he had during those times.


[deleted]

They were declining with respect to their rivals. They were stagnating before that by always finishing 4th Ultimately, we don’t really follow them as much as Arsenal fans do but I don’t see many of them asking for Wenger to come back. He did better than his successors but it still wasn’t good enough


Jeffthe100

Yeah, don’t like this revisionism tbh. Wenger was always gonna fall short off top 4 with how much United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool have improved. If the board weren’t penny pinching during his tenure, maybe Arsenal wouldn’t have slipped so much. Alas, we’ll never know but that’s Arsenal not us 😅


depressivebee

Ya to be fair, I think they *were* stagnating around the top 4 for a while and *then* started declining even further


Jeffthe100

Yeah, really it’s the board rather than the coaches tbh. Wenger and Emery are good coaches but Arteta… yeah, he’s helping United for sure lol


availableusername10

Agreed. Also, by the time Wenger left they were already falling short of top 4. They finished 5th and 6th in his last two years.


Jeffthe100

Exactly, it’s really the board at fault for not giving enough funds to Wenger to improve his squad. Sure, it’s expensive but that’s what it takes in the premier league now


just_peachy1000

This is the truth. Arsene wenger left after years of stagnation, infact they were in slow decline. Arsenal hadn't really be challenging and winning much under him. It was clear under Wenger, arsenal's best days were behind them. When SAF left us he was still at the top and his teams were still competitive in all competitions. Makes sense to get input from the best there ever was.


Socky32

Losing 5-0 each week to Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City I would consider a bit of decline


daveor

Exactly, I don't think Wenger ever felt or instilled the level of 'this is our club forever' mentality that Fergie did. Theres no doubt Fergie cares and theres so many ex-players under his time that still try to influence us for the better like Evra, Rio, Rafael and many others are ambassadors such as Vidic, Park Ji-Sung, Cole, Robson etc. I've never felt Arsenal have that, when legends leave they leave and don't seem to think much more about it.


Fruitndveg

The legacy of that club is being tarnished before our very eyes. Love him or hate him, what Wenger did there was nothing short of incredible. He overhauled the culture of the whole club just as Fergie did with us.


sykoticnarcotics

Exactly, Wenger is one of the most influential managers in PL history and IMO second only to SAF. I sometimes wonder if we would have hit the heights we did under SAF without Wenger being the legitimate threat that he was. He was an incredible manager, it's weird how disrespected he is these days. City isn't City without their owner pumping in a stupid money, Chelsea isn't Chelsea without the owner pumping in a stupid amount of money. Arsenal legitimately are getting worse spending more money, they weren't sugardaddied to where they ended up, it was the brilliance of Wenger. United VS Arsenal were my favourite fixtures in those times, hands down. Keane/Vieira and SAF/Wenger rivalries were almost too perfect. It was his time to go, for sure, but seriously, people need to stop disrespecting the man.


TrinitronCRT

Agreed. One of the best of all times for sure. And Arsenal always played great attacking football. I just can't believe the shit that is thrown at Wenger even now from their own fans. The man is a legend.


xXDaNXx

That was Fergie's dream, to have his players come back and help the club just like how Bayern players did for many years.


PavanJ

Apparently he's never been back to the Emirates, I couldn't believe that when I read it.


massiveerricson

And not to mention he was booted out by the fans..


craptionbot

I detested Arsene Wenger from the late 90's til towards the end of his time at Arsenal, however - the way Arsenal fans treated him at the end of his time was absolutely disgraceful. He owes them nothing IMO. (At 6:06 onwards - "Be careful what you wish for" - https://youtu.be/VmgVPi\_YQ7E?t=366)


Jeffthe100

Yes, they were disrespectful for sure but honestly, Wenger was definitely going to disappoint with Arsenal after slipping from top 4. When you see how much other teams have spent. Wenger was always gonna fall short off top 4 with how much United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool have improved. If the board weren’t penny pinching during his tenure, maybe Arsenal wouldn’t have slipped so much. Now it’s definitely too late until the other clubs start to slip Alas, we’ll never know but that’s Arsenal not us 😅


Irishane

Here's why that won't happen. Wenger is known to have intervened when former Arsenal Legends wanted to continue as coaches at the club or come back as coaches. He blocked a good many of them. It's no coincidence that Adams, Campbell, Arteta, Merson, Ljungberg, Vieria never worked under him because he saw himself as always looking forward and has little time for that kind of sentimentality. And to be honest, that club could do with a few winners walking around the place. As a Utd fan, it's pretty funny to watch. But as a football fan, I hate watching good clubs devolve the way Arsenal is.


Jeffthe100

Tbh, that’s very foolish of Wenger. A lot more arrogant than what I assumed. Not letting Vieira learn under him is such a joke and disgraceful. All those guys have pedigree and understand Arsenal almost as well as Wenger so why not let them learn and help the current players? It’s not like letting your kids coach the club, they’re professionals who know what it takes to be successful at Arsenal


Irishane

Yep. Im confident that if Arsenal still had the likes of Vieria, Overmars, Petit, Pires, Adams and Keown walking around and involv d in the club; maintaining the history of success; Arsenal would have a very different feel about it. Many will think that sounds silly, but an aura can be a very powerful thing. It creates a narrative for opponents before a ball is kicked. Right now, I bet there's not a single club in the PL that fears Arsenal because they seem rudderless and without any kind of identity. Wenger had many failings (and many successes) but I think he fucked up majorly by letting his ego run the club. He could have done worse than taking a leaf out of Ferguson's book and created a "Family Club".


KeithCGlynn

The only thing is Liam Brady worked at the club for years and Pat Rice. So why allow those club legends and not the others?


Lost_Afropick

Eh, it's not like any of them have excelled as coaches elsewhere though is it?


Jeffthe100

Well, it would have benefitted Arsenal, Wenger and those players but you know


thphnts

Do Arsenal have any former club legends still playing?


zoomzoomsheiit

Such a stupid article. Maybe Nottingham Forest should get some of their European champions to return as well


thphnts

We were attractive to Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo because we’re in the champions league. Arsenal aren’t in any of the European competitions, so they’d struggle to sign anyone big. Not even Wenger can help there.


callmelampshade

To be fair Arsenal could use Wenger to try and hijack Jack Wilshire’s move to Serie B team Como 1907 lol.


thphnts

Completely forgot Wilshere was still playing football. What happened to him?


manmathb

>Completely forgot Wilshere was still playing football. So did all the clubs.


thphnts

O…oh


nearly_headless_nic

Ornstein did an interesting interview with him recently, its on youtube. Says now that leaving Arsenal was a 'mistake'. Believe he is not attached to any club right now, and training with a Italian Serie B (second devision) side. Still only 29 BTW.


thphnts

That’s mad. Feels like he’s one of those players that has been around forever, too. Shame his career is basically over at 29.


nearly_headless_nic

Yeah. Combined effects of Starting early + unfortunate record with injuries + The English media hype. Another example : Drinkwater. Its mad what happened to him after moving to Chelsea, that too for 35M. Barely any starts in 5 years, after being a pillar of a league winning team.


callmelampshade

Drinkwater was never that good though. Wilshire was regarded as one of the best young talents in the world.


eclap1978

Future Arsenal and England captain lol. The problem with Wilshire was that he didn't surround himself with the right people. He got paid big early on, got all the hype and then just stopped giving a fuck. Plus the injuries. He couldn't cut it at West Ham and Bournemouth in his last 2 spells. The guy is toast, regardless of his age. I think Arsenal fans have to take a bit of responsibility there, calling any up and coming player "future England/Arsenal captain". It's happened so many times over the years, all including players that have never made it.


thphnts

I can see Maddison going in the same direction.


JuicyJaKrispy

I'm barely awake but at first read, thought you meant what happened to wilshire was the result of not drinking enough water. You has me reaching for the Brita


Kaii0705

a little less bad situation than Phil Jones :/


eclap1978

He's not really though. The lad has been without a club for a while.


MonsieurLazer

Also SAF and Wenger are leagues apart.


thphnts

Wenger was one of the most successful managers in the PL.


MonsieurLazer

Yes, and SAF won 13 league titles and 2 CL.


thphnts

Wow, tell me more about things I already knew. That stat doesn’t mean Wenger is a worse manager. He managed the invincibles and lead Arsenal to a CL final, as well as winning other trophies. To discount him as unsuccessful shows you don’t know football.


MonsieurLazer

At no point did I say Wenger is unsuccesful. In my opinion, he's the 2nd best manager ever in the PL. It's just SAF's level is something else compared to anyone. I'll say it again, 13 league titles and if not for the greatest player/team in history, he'd have 4 CL's.


RicciRox

Wenger IS a worse manager.


thphnts

I never said it was on par with SAF, just that he isn’t bad as people think.


Howdareme9

If he’s not on par then he’s worse lol


AlephEpsilon

Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey: probably not legends.


thphnts

I’d argue them letting Ramsey go on a free was the biggest mistake they’ve made post-Wenger.


eclap1978

I think giving Xhaka a contract extension this summer is much worse. Or signing Willian. Or putting Arteta in charge. Or giving a 29 year old Southampton reject (Cedric) a 4 year deal. I could carry on... Letting Ramsay go is least of their problems.


thphnts

All of that happened after Ramsey leaving. Ramsey. Not Ramsay. Also: go back to sucking up to the scousers, mate: https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/ohr2uf/im_a_united_fan_and_im_ready_for_the_downvotes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


PlusChill

There are some parallels between Fergie-Ronaldo and Wenger-Fabregas. Fergie and Ronaldo's relationship is stronger, but regardless, Fabregas wanted to go back to Arsenal and Wenger stalled, leading to him joining Chelsea while Wenger was still at Arsenal. If Fabregas can do that to a guy he said 'treated me like his son', then there's nobody Wenger would have the effect on that Fergie did on Ronaldo. There's nobody who it'd even be worth it for at this point though as you said.


thphnts

I forgot about the Wenger-Fabregas relationship. I think we got lucky with Ronaldo. He’s got 2-3 more good years in him and he’s decided to spend it with the club that effectively made him. I really don’t think he’d be the same player he is today if he joined any other club after Sporting.


omelette_wrap

Legends they almost signed. Wenger should step and almost persuade them to join Arsenal.


tehcoon89

Welbeck


thphnts

I said club legends.


plusforty4

The legendary Lord B


fat_boyz

Arsenal don't deserve Arsene.


Rascha-Rascha

He couldn’t though, could he? Sir Alex left United after winning a title, Wenger was chased out by pitch forks because their fans thought they were better than fourth.


Jeffthe100

It’s really the board the fans should have really hounded after


Lost_Afropick

They did to be fair. They've been banging on about getting Kronke out since forever.


Jeffthe100

I guess they should have hounded them till they invaded the pitch like the United fans. It sounds tribal but it shows fans are serious


ttt309

I feel bad for Wenger every time I thought about this. United vs Arsenal was once the most exciting games in my memories. Wenger gave us one of the best rivalries during his time, and deserve better respect from Arsenal fans.


PeelThePain

>their fans thought they were better than fourth. Hard cold truth few Arsenal fans accepted at that time. Now they know and can't admit.


agent619

Article Text: >*In response to a question that was directly posed last year by his former nemesis Jose Mourinho, Arsene Wenger identified two distinct models among the most successful modern day football clubs.* > >*There are those with deep pocketed owners who have, to a considerable degree, spent their way to glory over a relatively short period of time. Think Manchester City and Chelsea in England. Or Paris St Germain abroad.* > >*And then there are those who are certainly not short of a pound or two but who try to compete on a self-sustaining basis and largely underpin their success through the strength of an identity and values that have been passed through the generations. Think Manchester United and Liverpool in England. Or Bayern Munich abroad.* > >*Preserving that identity has largely depended on the involvement of certain colossal figures in the club’s history after they have finished playing or managing.* > >*Liverpool famously had their boot-room and greats like Sir Kenny Dalglish retain their involvement both on a formal and informal basis.* > >*At Bayern, people like Franz Beckenbauer, Uli Hoeness and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge have shaped the club after playing and, when a new chief executive was announced earlier this year, that tradition continued in the form of Oliver Kahn.* > >*Look at Manchester United and we saw the traditions of Matt Busby, himself a long-time director, preserved in the form of Sir Bobby Charlton and now Sir Alex Ferguson.* > >*Such figures are important. They add a certain stardust and gravitas to a club. They have the instant respect still of modern players as well as agents and executives across football’s ecosystem. They have experience and knowledge. If used intelligently, the benefit can be vast.* > >*It is usually intangible but, as we have seen with Ferguson’s pivotal involvement in the extraordinary signing of Cristiano Ronaldo, sometimes rather more obvious and direct.* > >*Which all brings us back to Wenger. And Arsenal.* > >*He left in 2018 and has not been back since. He has since suggested that he would be open to a directors’ role but, for whatever reason, it has never happened.* > >*The current Arsenal board comprises owners Stan and Josh Kroenke, Lord Harris of Peckham, who was the founder of Carpetright and Tim Lewis, a corporate lawyer who specialises in mergers and acquisitions.* > >*On the sporting side, Arsenal have appointed former players in technical director Edu and academy manager Per Mertesacker but, taken together with the board, it is hardly a backroom set-up dripping with the sort of heavyweight football personality one might expect at a club of such history and stature.* > >*When Wenger talked last year of “a deficit of knowledge in the big clubs of top, top-level competition and games of top-level sport” you did not have to be overly suspicious to wonder if there was an unspoken subtext.* > >*This has nothing to do with tired old debates about the final years of Wenger’s managerial tenure. It is instead about maximising your potential assets.* > >*And, wherever you stood on the old Wenger in/out question, the truth remains he has a stature in world football which is far in excess of anyone else at the club. You saw that just as travelling journalists on any away European trip. Or day to day at the training ground when former legends from the Invincible team would drop by to maintain their fitness and see their old mentor.* > >*Even in the more difficult final third of his tenure, Kylian Mbappe thought seriously about joining Arsenal, Alexis Sanchez picked Arsenal above Liverpool and Luis Suarez pushed to leave Anfield to play at the Emirates. All of that would be unthinkable now and was largely explained by Wenger’s presence. You could still even see only last week how genuinely delighted Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain was when Wenger showed up at Liverpool’s training ground.* > >*No-one is saying that Wenger is the sole answer to Arsenal’s problems but, if used correctly, his presence and input could help. And Arsenal could use all the help that they can get just now.*


negativelynegative

#WengerIn


Anaboono

Why would he? Seems from the outside looking in that Wenger was forced out. Fergie left on his own accord and is still involved with the club anyway. Different situations.


ShanghaiCowboy

Arsenal don't deserve Arsene Wenger anymore imo, after their fans reacted and turned on him


jholsano_ruti

I hope he doesn't. Arsenal and its fans don't deserve him. He was a figurehead in all of their successes in the 2000s, nurtured and matured fantastic talents. He was also very effective in slowing their downfall, we can all see now how it's all been straight downhill since he left. Arsenal fans crucified Wenger during his last days at the club, while the money-pinching by the board went totally under the radar. If they protested against the board instead back then, who knows what might've happened.


BrownAsian-

Why should we even care about arsenal


ukgamer420

What a nonsense article, when was the last time Arsenal had an absolute legend playing for them that’s still playing today? And more to the point even if there was, why would they want to come back to Arsenal / Arteta and his magic eye brows?


Rayhann

Wenger don't owe that shit club anything, honestly and as everyone else pointed out, he's not involved with them in any way but man, i'd fucking love to see wenger manage this current french side


Dragonmasta1994

I wouldnt mind Wenger coaching the Netherlands if Van Gaal had said no I've had enough. Wenger had a knack of making average players looking better than they are, like van Gaal


busta_DE

the Problem is that Wenger is no SAF for Arsenal... some people are still not getting the meaning and big impact SAF has for ManU...


Lord_Sesshoumaru77

The telegraph has been coming with a series of ludicrous takes now that we got Ronaldo back. Wonder if they would be arsed to write such if he would have gone to city.


niallw1997

What a brain dead article. As if Wenger has even remotely the same pull as Sir Alex Ferguson and as if Arsenal are comparable to United in size and stature


kingkongjaffa

Early 2000’s arsenal were a force but they have fucked it in the last decade.


pmmerandom

lol no ones helping that club right now


TheMarkymark1993

Fabregas about to come back and sort the gunners out


qmzpl

Get on the buzzer to Bendtner


Eggmanmanman

Haha yeah they shit on Arsene for years. Now they realize how good they had it and want him to come help?


TrinitronCRT

Seriously. The man was a legend and they hounded him out after years of the team overachieving on little to no support from their board. They don't deserve Arsene. Unfair to be putting this on his shoulders.


mchugho

Who the hell subscribes to the Torygraph?


Mike_Piazza

Where's Henry playing nowadays?


eclap1978

Wenger can't help Arsenal, he couldn't do it when he was right there, in the job, for the last 10 years of him being there. My hero Sir Alex left United after winning the league. Nobody wanted him out. In fact, most of us were distraught when that announcement happened. I know I was upset. Wenger on the other hand was wanted out of the fans and everyone above him for years before he got booted the fuck out. To even put Sir Alex and Wenger in the same conversation is fucking ridiculous.


cr2152

HAHAHAHAHAAA


C_gawd

Arsene don’t got the juice like that


Raintrooper7

Yep. Bring back Chamak to Emirates.


T-BoneSteak14

Like wenger wants to help after how it all ended there


lanrebl00m

He was sacked lmao


Cr7NeTwOrK

I'm always up for a good laugh at Arsenal's football club's expense


charaf2

He could bring Chamakh back!


Taiko89

Why the fuck would he want to help a club that treated him like shit though? 😂


PaddyLee

This is so hilarious. Feels like Arteta has nudes of every journo in England.


rioferd888

Why? Is wenger going to bring back fabregas? lol


Scruffy_Nerfhearder

People comparing Wenger and his legacy to Fergie… Please, there are levels to this shit.


anonshe

Don't even go there; due to the Emirates move, he had to generate ~£19m per season from sales. How he managed to remain competitive in those years was a minor miracle in itself. Obviously Fergie is a much bigger legend but for Arsenal, Arsene is their biggest manager since the days of Chapman.