T O P

2 clients within the same city, but 15km away from each other

2 clients within the same city, but 15km away from each other

ggildner

We refrain from taking on direct competitors just for this reason — it’s too difficult to grow the results of both clients without compromising some factor of the other campaign. Just being a few kilometers away from each other is not enough, Google’s geo targeting is close but not nearly that granular, people will cross into the other territory so often that you might as well have entirely overlapping geo boundaries.


joshuacoollll

Yes I understand that. but the city and the population in it is huge. Based on what i observed when I was working just for one client, i realised that most customers won't travel too far for a dental clinic. Thats' why i set it as 7km. Let's say in New York, it's a huge city with huge population.


scatteR634

I don’t take 2 clients of the same business within that close of each other. It’s called “conflict of interest”. Refer the lesser paying / bigger pain client out and just keep one.


joshuacoollll

Because after some time with my old client, i realised that most customers do not travel far for a dental clinic, usually it is around 15 minutes travel distance, which means around 5-7km radius. That's why I decided to take up the other dental clinics. Both are working fine, the old clients result is still good, just that i realised the cpc increased.


jayqdallas

Check your Geo/Location settings as they may be setup to "Presence or Interest". Change that to Presence in the targeted area. Go to Campaign - Settings - Locations - Location Options. Good luck!


doomrabbit

This is good stuff. I have seen instances where I got ads for vacation cities after I returned home from it. With the two businesses in the same town, this will essentially nullify the circles.


joshuacoollll

Thanks! I done that. But i realised that the keywords are still competing against each others. When I was in Client's A location, I tried to search for dental clinic. But then Client B's ad shows up sometimes. Thats why I was thinking how can i reduce the amount of conflicts between two clients


ericb0

You received some good advice so I won't repeat that. But also consider that the cpc is not going to increase that much due to one extra competitor in the auction. So I wouldn't lose too much sleep with this.


Higgs_Br0son

This is a good point! Especially with Dental like OP mentioned, CPC will be very high no matter what. Realistically, these are *mostly* "dentist near me" keywords anyway, same bids whether you run the account or someone else does.


deadwizard

this is interesting! it seems tricky to handle though. When I freelance for a client, I operate on the premise of having their best interest and desired outcome at heart. In your situation, it almost feels like you're sabotaging their performance so that each gets half of the pie. Unless the clients know that you're working competitors and that you're making campaign decisions such that they don't cannibalize one another, perhaps you can offer one of the clients to a colleague of yours (and get some referral commission or fee from them) so that you can focus all your efforts onto one?


joshuacoollll

Yes they both understood that I am working for both of them. The thing about dental clinic is that, most customers won't travel too far for dental treatment. I have tested when I had only 1 client, most of his customers are from within 5-7km radius, thats why I decided to take up the other clients. There are around let's say 50 dental clinics in the city, I believe there's a way to have a few clients within the city, when the city area is huge, and the population is huge.


deadwizard

I think the fact they both understand is already a great start, kudos on that! In this case, I think you argue a VERY good point. If indeed most clients like to stick to the 5-7km range, then by targeting that geographic you are actually optimizing the marketing spend (since you'd rather not pay/advertise to people who are much less likely to visit this clinic given the distance). Best of luck!!


joshuacoollll

Thanks! Just that I doesn't know how to exclude the locations properly haha


Namuskeeper

Wouldn't it be more feasible to put the same effort into both and let the quality of the business (customer service etc.) be the deciding factor in who gains more? Personally, it sounds counterproductive to limit both businesses' growth while you could let external factors (i.e. business' attitude towards their customers and you, their interest to invest or increase the budget more, etc.) be the winning factor. Unless you directly damage one to improve another, it should be fine. Even using exact bids on exact keywords should get down to other factors. If the platform itself allows both to compete with each other and let budgets, bids, LP quality, and tons of other factors be the deciding factor, I don't see why you wouldn't? You also need to remember that if one stops working with you and continues to run ads (through their own means or with another advisor), they would most likely compete anyway.


ziggyhtx

I run campaigns for competing companies in the same metro. And - both companies are aware of it. It's an industry-by-industry case, but, assuming the product/service is big enough and the metro is big enough - there should be plenty of marketshare to be captured.


joshuacoollll

Yes definitely true, I ran for both of them, the results were decent. But then I realised that sometimes the keywords are competing against each other. So Im trying to figure out a way to avoid it.


happyoutlet

If I were you, I'd refer one of the clients to another person and get an ongoing referral fee. You'll still get paid, but won't be competing against yourself. The other person will likely use a different strategy than you so competition will be reduced. Also you'll be able to serve the client you're working with better because you won't be trying to avoid your own competition. What if expanding the radius to +14km is good for your client, but you aren't doing that because of your other client.


Mokaroo

I have dealt with similar issues a bunch of times. There are a variety of ways to try to make this work. Going to ignore the underlying concern about whether you're doing something unethical in taking them both on and not telling them. * Day parting may work instead of geo that doesn't overlap. If there is enough search volume, break the hours of the day or days of the week into pieces and swap who is active when. * Swim lanes by keywords. This is a pain to manage, particularly with how hard Google pushes you into using broader targeting these days. Divide up the keywords between the clients. Maybe try to talk to them into being more focused on certain specific services they want to promote (the obvious issue with dental here is that generic stuff like "dentist office near me" is going to be the main driver of leads). * Just don't worry about it. If one of them ran ads through someone else they'd be competing with each other anyway. It's like playing chess against yourself. * Somehow convince them to switch to a pay-per-lead model and setup a completely third party website and promote that instead. Sell them the leads instead of the marketing services. As an aside, I've done a lot of dental campaigns over the years and they consistently have problems with clicks from people looking for their current dentist and somehow just don't pay attention and convert on my client's website. Aggressively negative out any competitors. With the big SMB agency I was at we just didn't worry about it and clearly showed that we worked with multiple dentists, cosmetic surgeons, and other medical professionals on our website.


Madismas

I have a similar issue, one client does paver install and paver sealing but only advertises the install right now. My other client does paver sealing a power washing. It's only a matter of time until this becomes a conflict.


adialbano

Maybe generate leads yourself and auction them to both? For example one might want 40 leads a month at max price 20 usd per lead and the other wants 25 leads per month at 15 usd per lead. Go with the high volume and high profit first, and whats left can be sold to the other one. This if you still want to keep both, otherwise refer the one you don't want to another ad buyer


tomhalejr

Location targeting isn't perfect, especially in such a small radius, but there are a few things you can try: 1. Make sure you are using the most restrictive targeting reach settings at the campaign level of each account. 2. Target the lowest level within your radius for each account (ex. Postal Code). 3. Exclude the targeted locations between the accounts. 4. Make sure you have a brand search campaign for each account, and exclude top level brand queries between the accounts, as an account level negative list. That way you can extend the targeted reach of the brand campaigns as far as you want, because there is no overlap for protecting each brand. 5. What is the impression share numbers of the general search campaigns? If you don't have enough budget for either client to achieve 100% impression share - Then what is each clients core strength, and specific audience? If there are clear distinctions regarding potential services, target and exclude those terms/sectors between the accounts. Which allows you to expand your targeting reach for those non-competing sectors. Try not to get too focused on the KPI's, until you have the accounts segregated as much as possible. Every situation (business) is different. You may very well find different KPI's between the accounts just due to the factors of the business/brand outside of your control.


Excellent_Sun8933

That's pretty unethical. I never take on the same industry and city.


TTFV

You shouldn't take on direct competitors unless you can firewall them with separate managers. Otherwise this creates a conflict of interest. You should try resolving it with your location targeting idea, assuming the clients aren't interested in targeting outside of that range? If that doesn't work you should terminate your services with the new client assuming first right of refusal from the original client.


NoWorry1

I wouldn't be happy if I found this out, being the client. So someone 8km away isn't a potential lead? I work with dentists and in the US some people drive 20 miles to a dentist. I think you're setting yourself up to lose both clients.


joshuacoollll

Ya I understood about that. But let's say in city that has huge population like new York. I definitely believe its possible to have 2-3 clients that are far from each others. Yes some customers do travel far for a dental clinic. But based on my 1 year results, I realised that 95% of the customers are from nearby. That 5% customers are costing clicks which are not leads.


NoWorry1

I'm in NY. Long island to be specific. I take one per county. In certain instances I'll even go north shore/south shore. It's all dependent on your area.


joshuacoollll

So it means that u do ads for several clinic in new York right? That's what I'm doing too lol


Irina_Aven

I won't get into the discussion about how unethical I might think this is, and since it didn't look like you were seeking the evaluation of the level of morality, I'll get to the point and address the questions: Google's radius and even country targeting as a whole are not 100% precise, although, it is as accurate as it gets. With such close proximity, you will be overlapping, no doubts about that. "Location targeting is based on a variety of signals", including settings, devices, behavior, and more. Hence if Client B's ad shows up for you in Client A's location (using your references) it does not mean that I'll show up for me and everyone else. Since you drove from one location to another, at minimum your behavior indicates that you might be interested in or regularly in both of the locations. In addition to the radius, targeting try refining it by using exclusions by counter excluding the locations. I would suggest using "regularly in" vs "interested in" for the location targetting. I would not bother about the rising CPC and most definitely would not relate that to the other campaign you're running. Unless you'll be advertising in the 15km sized town with the only two dentists practicing. Regardless of your efforts, the above will Not fix the issue... it might slightly improve it. However, letting one client go while making another one succeed within the expanded radius, would. It would be a perfect World with a precise territory division, considering your clients are happy with their limited reach. In reality, there are millions of variants that could and would affect your campaigns: 1. A potential client can live in radius A and work in radius B, therefore see both ads (hope you're running different copies) 2. It is debatable what would be their starting point (re: they don't travel more than 7km to...) if anything I would say people typically try to squeeze their doctors in the early hours before work or during breaks 3. Google uses IP addresses for geotargeting. Sometimes ISP assigns the same IP to a large network of devices. Basically, this means that you and the other people inside your Internet service provider’s “service area” are either in the local area network (LAN) or in a bigger Metropolitan Area Network (MAN). MAN could be a single large city, multiple cities, and towns, or any given large area with multiple buildings It is literally inevitable for your ads to be showing up in both locations at least to the extent. So as a bare minimum I would make sure the copies are different, and try to refine my geotargeting with the exclusions (if necessary go as granular as excluding IP addresses). Furthermore, I would highly consider working with only one of the clients for the success and sustainability of our partnership.